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Old 09-05-2005, 05:53 PM   #11
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
I told you that every time you bring up the aluminum tubes again, I would find another place on the Cellar where you were mistaken. ...
However, when pressed, tw could not identify any such budget cuts, and actually failed to reply at all until pushed hard. It turned out there had actually been a 1/2 Billion increase. tw was wrong.
If UT read all of that previous discussion, first the shuttles needed $2.2 billion of upgrades. Second, the ISS was comsuming another $8 billion. So George Jr only gave them $0.5 billion - and UT does not call that a funding increase? Furthermore, Columbia needed a major refurbishment. Therefore Columbia was to be retired rather than spend money. Instead, under George Jr, Columbia was not retired and a minor (considered insufficient) refurbishment was performed. They did not provide the necessary money.

Meanwhile TW never said the Columbia was exclusively a result of George Jr bean counting - as UT misrepresents. Cost cutting was discussed early as a contributing factor. Later posted were the reasons for that disaster from the investigation report:
Quote:
Both Columbia and Challenger were lost also because of the failure of NASA's organizational system. ... This chapter shows how previous political, budgetary, and policy decisions by leaders at the White House, Congress, and NASA impacted the Space Shuttle Program's structure, culture, and safety system, and how these in turn resulted in flawed decision-making for both accidents.
The explanation is about system effects: how actions taken in one layer of NASA's organizational system impact other layers. History is not just a backdrop or a scene-setter. History is cause. History set the Columbia and Challenger accidents in motion.
Connecting the parts of NASA's organizational system and drawing the parallels with Challenger demonstrate three things. First, despite all the post-Challenger changes at NASA and the agency's notable achievements since, the causes of the institutional failure responsible for Challenger have not been fixed.
Curious. Management failures were responsible for both disasters. Cited by other sources is the lady boss who specifically stopped every engineer attempt to save seven lives.

Ironically, the reason for so many deaths in New Orleans is the same reason for death of seven Columbia astronauts.

Meanwhile, UT started this by taking cheap and insulting shots at TW. My response to his interpretation: a classic example - Pearl Harboring of Iraq by promoting a lie - those alumunim tubes. No way around this fact when one posts insults rather than stick to logical responses.

Original question is easy to answer IF personal biases are kept out. Show me where George Jr is not acting as a racist? Amazing how that is converted by UT into some kind of political statement, instead of a simple question of fact.

Rather than continue with these childish and irrelevant accusations, UT, why not instead answer the original question? Its not difficult to keep your political baggage out of a simple question. Its an easy question to answer. Swallow your personal agenda (don't act like a Fox News reporter) and stick to facts. That is not what you did when you kept hyping those aluminum tubes for a mythical WMD.
Quote:
Show me where George Jr did anything last week to dispell the rumors of racism. Show me.
It's just not a difficult question. Show me.
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