More Intelligent Design

[warch]

Yea!
The voters of Dover, Pa just voted out every single sitting republican school board member wanting to insert ID into the science curriculum. Clean sweep. ID belongs in a discussion of comparative religions. Not in science class.

[Elspode]

The fact that The Book of Genesis says what it says, and scientific study says what it says is precisely the whole problem, here. This is why the solution should be simple. Creationism should be taught in Literature classes, and Evolution should be taught in Science classes. Then, the fact that, in Hebrew, Genesis says creation occurred in a 24 hour day could be taught as a language exercise, and Darwinism/Evolution could be taught as a Science exercise.

Seems pretty simple to me. Now...when do I get to sue to be able to teach Evolution in the Churches since we now have to teach Creationism in the schools? Fair is fair, after all.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Elspode

The fact that The Book of Genesis says what it says, and scientific study says what it says is precisely the whole problem, here. This is why the solution should be simple. Creationism should be taught in Literature classes, and Evolution should be taught in Science classes. Then, the fact that, in Hebrew, Genesis says creation occurred in a 24 hour day could be taught as a language exercise, and Darwinism/Evolution could be taught as a Science exercise.

Seems pretty simple to me. Now...when do I get to sue to be able to teach Evolution in the Churches since we now have to teach Creationism in the schools? Fair is fair, after all.

OK, again, for the record, and I'll speak in third person so everyone can be clear.

OnyxCougar does not believe Creationism (or ID, which are two separate things) should be taught in public school. OnyxCougar does not believe Origins Theory should be taught in public school. OnyxCougar believes that Mutation and Speciation occurs, is observable, and repeatable. It is completely within the realm of Observational and Experimental Science, and absolutely should be taught in science classes in public schools. OnyxCougar believes that Observational and Experimental Science has NOTHING to do with Origins Theory, and that cell mitosis and all that other great biology stuff can be taught WITHOUT origins theory. It HAS been done, it CAN be done, and it SHOULD be done.

My problem with Origins Theory is that is taught as FACT. I was watching a show on Stonehenge on the Discovery (natch) channel, and they stated AS A FACT that the ice ages came and went over millions of years, blah blah blah. No scientist in the world can prove that anything is "millions of years" old. They can speculate, they can postulate, they can guess. But there is no proof. There just isn't.

When we're talking about "there is no proof there is a god" it's called religion.
When we're talking about "there is no proof of millions of years" it's called Science.

I call it hypocritical.

Any scientist will tell you carbon dating is accurate only when the item is within a few thousand years old. Anything older (millions of years) is a false reading. Even the guy who came up with carbon dating has stated that it's more and more inaccurate as the dates get older.

By the way, the "scientific" program on the "Discovery Channel" about Stonehenge also mentioned that about they have the first history of man in the region, about 5,000 years ago. What a coincidence.

Look, I'm not trying to convert people to Christianity. I'm not saying Science is Evil! I'm just saying that people are not thinking critically about this origins theory, but posit it as a fact, and are trying to brainwash our children into "buying it" as "real science", when it's clearly not. That is wrong.

Let's teach our children to think critically about ALL subjects, ask their own questions, and form their own opinions based on Observational, Experimental Science.

I don't want ANY religion in public school, including Evolutionism. Leave faith to philosophy, huh?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Elspode

The fact that The Book of Genesis says what it says, and scientific study says what it says is precisely the whole problem, here. This is why the solution should be simple.

It is simple.

Creationism should be taught in Literature classes, and Evolution should be taught in Science classes.

I disagree. Creationism and Origins Theory should not be taught in public school at all. Or, if you insist, they should both be taught as philosphy, along with the great turtle, Gaea, Atlas, and other religious theories of Origin.

This is where the debate hinges. I say quell the debate by not teaching ANY of them in public school.

Then, the fact that, in Hebrew, Genesis says creation occurred in a 24 hour day could be taught as a language exercise

Had Hebrew been available in my High School, I would have taken it. But if you offer Hebrew, you better offer Arabic and Latin as well. Wouldn't want to be biased, now would we?

and Darwinism/Evolution could be taught as a Science exercise.

Here is the crux of the debate. Origins theory is NOT science. Hence, it should not be taught as such in public school. Lump it in with Philosophy if you feel it MUST be taught.

Let me throw this out there....

No doctor or surgeon will tell you that Origins Theory has ANYTHING to do with healing a patient. No AIDS researcher needs to believe that we evolved from primordial ooze to find a cure, no geneticist needs to believe that in order to find the gene that "turns on" Altzheimer's or Cancer or Down's or Sickle Cell or ,or, or. No physicist in the world needs to believe that dinosaurs evolved from birds to smash atoms together to try to find theoretical quarks. Origins Theory is just not a science, guys. I'm sorry that you think it is. I truly am.

I'll go so far as to say that you don't have to choose OT or Creationism. You don't have to choose anything at all. You can just accept we're here, this is the way things are, this is how it works, and go from there. That's ok, too. And that's how it should be taught in public school. Origins is entirely the realm of religion. As a parent, I don't want any school teaching my children religion of ANY kind. That is not what that school is there for.

Seems pretty simple to me. Now...when do I get to sue to be able to teach Evolution in the Churches since we now have to teach Creationism in the schools?

I think that every church, synagogue, temple and mosque (and other places of worship) need to teach ALL the theories it can. Absolutely. My particular faiths call me to be responsible for my choices and actions and to be able to answer questions as knowledgebly and with as clear an understanding as I can.

Fair is fair, after all.

Absolutely. Keep Origins Theory (Humanism) in the religious realm with Christianity, Islam, Baha'i, Shamanism, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and all the rest of the -isms, and out of my son's school.