Hummer better than Hybrid, for Earth

[Bullitt]

I wonder how much the "study" takes into account the fact that the technology and manufacturing of hybrid cars is just more expensive overall than your normal vehicle.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

I wonder how much the "study" takes into account the fact that the technology and manufacturing of hybrid cars is just more expensive overall than your normal vehicle.

I think you're close. I enjoyed this analysis of the CNW article.

Well, since hybrids aren't mass produced at the same level as conventional vehicles, this automatically creates extra SHORT TERM costs. If hybrids were produced in the same quantities as conventional vehicles, many of these extra costs would not exist. Moreover, over time the production of any vehicle becomes more efficient.

Additionally, the electric components of hybrids - many of which are the foundation of fuel cell vehicles - are expensive to dispose notes CNW. While this might also be true, this again is largely due to the newness of the technology. Many of these components will eventually be recycled. Anytime there is an emerging technology, different processes are required and take time to develop.

...

Using CNW's logic, America's answer to foreign oil dependency and to pollution is simply to do nothing, as every experimental vehicle, such as hybrids or fuel cell vehicles, will always take more energy to produce in the short term.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Maintenance costs are also high for now.
I think what they are taking the position that hybrids aren't for everyone and we shouldn't push for a wholesale changeover to an entirely hybrid market.


Oh,......and don't let Bill Gates build them.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

I wonder how much the "study" takes into account the fact that the technology and manufacturing of hybrid cars is just more expensive overall than your normal vehicle.

That is why transistors cost so much more than vacuum tubes. The same 'monetary' study was once written to prove transistors would be useless. Clearly a study based in monetary analysis is accurate.

Worse is that the study's author is considered an expert. I see Rush Limbaugh logic. Where does he put up a single number for energy? He does not. Instead he does a classic bean counter analysis. You are expected to assume that costs measure energy.

Clayton Christensen's book "Innovators Dilemma" makes this woefully obvious. Major breakthrough innovations are usually inferior when first provided. One need only look at disk drives. Why would tiny disk drives that hold so much less data end up undermining the big disk drive industry? Welcome to innovation. Major innovation does not demonstrate major advantages on the spread sheets - at first.

The original 8080 I had considered buying was $400 - or about $2200 in today's money. That proves the microprocessor takes too much energy to produce? That logic is in that hybrid vs hummer example. Not only is the study based in spread sheet analysis. It also demands you will assume a relationship between energy consumption and dollars.

Meanwhile that 8080 dropped to less than $10 in 10 years. This because technology advanced due to the new and revolutionary technology found in semiconductors and not found in vacuum tubes.

Hybrids are technologically superior to now obsoleting big block (1968) solutions. But it will take time and continued technology innovations for prices to eventually reflect that advantage. Ever hear of an Atkin's engine? Just another possibility that, due to hybrid technology, could reduce energy consumption further. Hybrids provide to automobiles what diesel electrics did to the steam engine. As is so routine, superior technology initially costs more than existing and obsoleting technology. It is why those who do spread sheet analysis cannot see innovation even if stuffed up their nose. By the time superior technology become obvious on a spread sheet, the technology has long been proven superior.

Those who do spread sheet analysis include GM management whose 1975engine technologies are in most all competition vehicles and still not standard in GM products - 30 years later. GM is still waiting for the 70 Hp per liter engine to be 'cost effective' - which is why GM dabbles in bankruptcy in 1991 and in 2006 while using spread sheet games to mask their continuing losses.

GM’s core business has not been a profitable for decades. This due to monetary analysis that cannot realize value until that innovation is no longer innovative. One can play money games to prove anything - including that the hummer uses less energy than hybrids. Classic MBA school reasoning.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Ever hear of an Atkin's engine?

No, except the reworked Mazda rotary engines like my brother races.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Ever hear of an Atkin's engine?

No, except the reworked Mazda rotary engines like my brother races.

Silly Mazda! Wankels are for boats!

[xoxoxoBruce]

And the Chris Craft goes hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, except the reworked Mazda rotary engines like my brother races.

- Is that direct drive - can he spin a propeller that fast - and not suffer from cavitation?

[xoxoxoBruce]

No, Bro races RX-7s. The boat was for Kitsune.
Atkin is one of the major Wankel rebuilders.
So what is your Atkins engine, TW?