WHAT GROUP ANNOYS YOU THE MOST ?

[Trilby]

OH! I get it! You are responding as the survival choice of the conservative minded!

You ever think that some conservatives might not agree with your views on rape?

[Elspode]

I cannot even begin to fathom how what a woman is wearing or not wearing could be construed as an invitation to rape. What the hell is so hard about, "No means no"? Yes, I've been told "no" by women dressed hot enough to scald my fingers (which, in some cases, I actually had down their panties, with their willing participation, when they said "no").

The blame is on the rapist, never the victim. Now, if a lady gives it up, then cries rape *after having given consent* in a fit of remorse or psychosis, we have a valid argument about the lady being to blame. Otherwise...no means no.

And Noodle, I am in no way directing my sarcasm at you. My sarcasm is directed at the incredibly Puritanical, misogynistic rhetoric which exists in our culture that even makes discussions like this necessary. To me, it should be glaringly obvious that a woman should not be forced into sex under any circumstances, most especially by dint of dress or mannerisms. But because of cultural, largely religious influences, people still seem to be able to imagine a world where the raped can be at fault.

[mrnoodle]

re: Brianna asking why I left -- I'm leaving because it's pointless to continue. I've said what I said, anyone can read it and figure out what it meant. You are continuing to throw rocks, hoping I'll pull a bmw and respond in kind. Sorry, that bores me. As does trying to find 150 ways to say the same thing in a way that you can't respond to with "oh yeah? well you're a poopoo head!" That magic sentence doesn't exist, because you enter every debate with a chip on your shoulder, and flatly refuse to be civil.

Let me say 2 things in no uncertain terms, and with no room for misinterpretation:

Rape is inexcusable.

Deliberately dressing to attract sexual attention works. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of screening which kind of attention you get, and thereby experience ONLY the reactions you wanted. Of course, you are entitled to individually prosecute every occurrence of ogling, catcalls, unwanted sexual advances, etc. etc. I personally think it would be easier to just put on some clothes. Your mileage may vary.

As I was telling Nao, if you say something like that, expect to have people misrepresent it, and start making cracks like

Brianna, you know as well as I do that sex outside of holy matrimony is an affront to Jehova; an abomination of Man. Therefore, harlots reap what they sow when they dress in a provocative and non-demure fashion.

Now...who wants to see my new line of designer burquas and veils? I also sell belly dancing accessories, but we make you sign a waiver saying that you won't sue us if you're raped while wearing them. After all, you would be scantily clad and gyrating provocatively, and you'd be just asking for it.

[/tragic voice/]

"yes! Yes, I was! I was sooooo hoping for a shot of Timberlake's crotch! And what did I get? A middle-aged woman's TIT! It almost made me go out and rape somebody!"

[end/tragic voice/]

well, she deserves what she gets. Let's not think about the many underlying causes for that exposed tit, let's just blame her for exposing it!

also--just for the hell of it: by your logic, strippers are begging to be raped. It's ok to rape them? Coz, they didn't "lock the front door"-? To be a stripper is to be an idiot? Asking for it?

In England they've a newspaper that prints photos of topless women, called Page 3 Girls, I believe. are they asking for it, too?

Out of all that, only about 3 lines are any kind of civilized discussion. As I told Nao, only people with certain viewpoints are allowed this sort of behavior, while we would get instant "asshole" labels because of our conservatism.

While we're on the topic though, I'll take a stab at the few bits that approach normal conversation.

well, she deserves what she gets. Let's not think about the many underlying causes for that exposed tit, let's just blame her for exposing it!

Again (and again, and again), "deserving" rape and making yourself a more appealing target for it are two different things. The underlying causes make fine discussion over coffee and biscuits, but they don't do you much good in realtime. If someone decides to make you a victim, you don't have a whole lot of time to ask them about their relationship with their mother before they have forced themselves on you. Unless you have a gun

also--just for the hell of it: by your logic, strippers are begging to be raped. It's ok to rape them? Coz, they didn't "lock the front door"-? To be a stripper is to be an idiot? Asking for it?

Overlooking the "begging to be raped" and "ok to rape them" mischaracterizations for the moment, yes. I have known many strippers. Almost all of them have been victims of some kind of criminal sex-related activity. Some of them were working on the side after hours and got raped or beaten. Some were stalked by customers. 2 of them (I dated them both) told me they got into the work because they had been raped, and wanted to feel power over men...don't ask me how they expected to achieve this by dancing. They were, without exception, mentally and spiritually beat up, and sick of life. I was trying to talk one friend out of working at the Hunt Club (the unofficial name is the Cunt Hub), and couldn't do it. She was going to get rich. Instead, she got a meth addiction.

By the way, you east coasters should be glad that it's still just crack out there. When meth hits you, you will think it's armaggedon. [/sidetrack]

In England they've a newspaper that prints photos of topless women, called Page 3 Girls, I believe. are they asking for it, too?

If they're walking to the grocery store in their Page 3 attire, probably.


edit: elspode, I usually ken where you're coming from. But you're still making my point to Nao
Conservatism gets hammered, any flavor of liberalism is to be fellated by all.

[Elspode]

Illogical conservatism gets hammered. I just don't see it as illogical that a woman, even if totally nude, should be able to go about her nude business without being molested.

If I go away for the weekend, and someone breaks into my house, I was inviting that by not being home? If I'm walking with a limp, and thugs run me down because I looked like I couldn't get away, should I stay indoors until I no longer am limping?

I am not arguing the fact that criminals should be prosecuted. Hell, I think they should be *executed*. How's that for Liberalism? Sometimes, I think the Death Penalty for car stereo theft would be a major deterrent. I don't think anyone should victimize anyone else, and I don't think that, when someone *is* victimized, we should start adding their vulnerability, even when self-generated, to the equation.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

I was trying to talk one friend out of working at the Hunt Club (the unofficial name is the Cunt Hub), and couldn't do it.

I think the "official" name is "A Hunt Club." I was skating roller derby at the roller rink next door to it for a while. I am not sure on the unofficial name, though.

I'll bet we know some of the same people.