Why is the United States backing Mexican drug gangs?

[TheMercenary]

Well I just can't see making access easier as a solution.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well I just can't see making access easier as a solution.

Will that eliminate more of the problem?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Will that eliminate more of the problem?

Not in my opinion. Increasing access does not help people with addiction. I could really care less about pot. Heroin and cocaine is another class altogether.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Not in my opinion. Increasing access does not help people with addiction. I could really care less about pot. Heroin and cocaine is another class altogether.

The only thing that can solve addiction is rehab and preventing its use in the first place. Making it illegal will push addicts to the black market, which is not positive in any way.

Like my safe sex example, real education about drugs will prevent its use as much as possible without resorting to overly expensive and rights eating methods. With legalization, addicts will be easier to spot and money can go to rehabilitation to actually help the problem.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I am not really sure that you could provide concrete objective studies which show that legalization will not cause an increase in use. I agree the money spent on the war on drugs could be better spent, legalization of Heroin and cocaine is not one of them.

I can't, too many factors involved. But since there are many other benefits of the legalization of drugs, legalization can be beneficial without a lower in usage.

Also, you never specify your reasons for being against the legalization of heroin and cocaine besides addiction, which I addressed.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The only thing that can solve addiction is rehab and preventing its use in the first place. Making it illegal will push addicts to the black market, which is not positive in any way.

Like my safe sex example, real education about drugs will prevent its use as much as possible without resorting to overly expensive and rights eating methods. With legalization, addicts will be easier to spot and money can go to rehabilitation to actually help the problem.

Sorry but that does not follow the common sense rule for me. Make it more available, and then redirect the money to rehab. Which essentially is an admission that you made a problem but you are going to have the money to treat it, so no problem. I can't buy that. Certainly taking money from the current approach and redirecting to better education it is one thing, similar to what is being done with smoking. The anti-smoking approach has been effective in decreasing the number of people who smoke, in the form of education and bans on when and where you can smoke. You are going to have a hard time convincing me that legalization of heroin and cocaine is a good thing.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Sorry but that does not follow the common sense rule for me. Make it more available, and then redirect the money to rehab. Which essentially is an admission that you made a problem but you are going to have the money to treat it, so no problem. I can't buy that. Certainly taking money from the current approach and redirecting to better education it is one thing, similar to what is being done with smoking. The anti-smoking approach has been effective in decreasing the number of people who smoke, in the form of education and bans on when and where you can smoke. You are going to have a hard time convincing me that legalization of heroin and cocaine is a good thing.

First, the legalization is not a "good" thing, I am arguing that it might be better than what we have now.

Second, education and rehabilitation will have to work hand in hand. Education will work to prevent people from start using those drugs in the first place and rehabilitation will work to keep people who are addicted from using the drugs in the future.

Third, my reason is not that it will change the individual usage and those negative effects, but the negative social effects. There are NO positive effects to pushing drugs to the black market, none. That is my main reason for my stance and reason I posted the article in the first place and you have never addressed that part.



To look at this issue rationally we have two main factors, individual negative effects and social negative effects and both need to be addressed.

To address the individual effects, we have to do what I said in my second point, focus on education and rehabilitation. I am very confident, as with your smoking cigarettes example, that education can lower drug abuse in teenagers. I am also confident that rehabilitation can get people to quit drugs and lower the massive amounts of negative effects that come with addiction. There are other methods to keep people from abusing drugs than making it illegal and as far as I am concerned, making drugs illegal hasn't worked at all so far so other methods should be explored.

To address the social effects, we need to keep drugs off the black market. I have personal experience with this and am aware of how negative and far reaching the social effects can be and it all stems from the black market and organized crime. Take a look at organized crime during the prohibition, it booms from popular illegal (emphasis both popular and illegal) substances. If full out legalization works, fine, if prescriptions work, fine, if alternative methods work, fine, but the goal of legalization is to get the drug trade off the streets.

That is why I believe proper education, rehabilitation, and the legalization of cocaine and heroin can have positive effects on our society. Education will prevent kids from abusing drugs in the first place. Rehabilitation will reduce the number of addicts. Legalization will take the drug trade off the black market. With those three, we can easily be efficient in lowering drug abuse and still be able to put money elsewhere as UT suggested.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Also, you never specify your reasons for being against the legalization of heroin and cocaine besides addiction, which I addressed.

Sure I have. I addressed them here:

Because I don't think that you can control the addiction. Alcohol is bad enough. I believe it ruins lives, families, and it would further burden the healthcare system.

IMHO you did not provide me with a convincing argument based on objective studies.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well I just can't see making access easier as a solution.

Drinking rates rose during prohibition. Sometimes we act different sociologically than we expect.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well I just can't see making access easier as a solution.

Me either. I was responding to UT.:p

I think part of what keeps some alive, is the inability to find a source at the right time. Just striving to get a line on something keeps their usage from being fatal sometimes.

I imagine that if it were legalized someone would always have a connection, which could be the fatal one at that time.