Murderous Terrorists Kill Brits

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I have no acceptance of terrorists.
I hate people who kill innocents to get their way.

Quite clear and well put ... depending upon the definition of terrorist.

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

We are all guilty by our ancestry.

I disagree with that - I am not guilty of anything that another human did. Especially what was done during a different time an place in the world. Things have changed so much so rapidly, especially the last 20-50 years, that to hold me somehow responsible for something someone else did seems ludicrous to me. But hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by classicman

But hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine.

Tagline!

[glatt]

Originally Posted by classicman

I disagree with that - I am not guilty of anything that another human did. Especially what was done during a different time an place in the world. Things have changed so much so rapidly, especially the last 20-50 years, that to hold me somehow responsible for something someone else did seems ludicrous to me.

Hypothetically speaking, if Madoff's kids weren't involved with defrauding billions from investors, but they clearly benefited financially, are they guilty of anything? What if they don't return the money once they find out about the fraud? Are they guilty then? They don't know exactly how much was ill gotten and who is owed what. Are they guilty to keep it, if they weren't involved in the original fraud? Are they guilty at all for living high on the hog for all those years? Assuming they didn't know?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by glatt

Hypothetically speaking, if Madoff's kids weren't involved with defrauding billions from investors, but they clearly benefited financially, are they guilty of anything?

No

Originally Posted by glatt

What if they don't return the money once they find out about the fraud? Are they guilty then?

No

Originally Posted by glatt

They don't know exactly how much was ill gotten and who is owed what. Are they guilty to keep it, if they weren't involved in the original fraud?

No

Originally Posted by glatt

Are they guilty at all for living high on the hog for all those years? Assuming they didn't know?

No
This is very similar to a conversation I believe you and I have already had in another thread . For the record, you asked very specific questions which I answered.

[glatt]

Hey Classic, thanks for answering my questions. I'm not sure what other thread you are talking about, but it's possible we've talked about something similar before.

I didn't expect you to answer the way you did for one part, that the kids wouldn't be guilty to keep the money their dad had stolen. I figured you would find them guilty in some way if they did that. But it fits with what you were saying before about not feeling guilty for anything your ancestors have done.

I personally have a feeling that if we benefit somehow from bad things that our ancestors have done, then we share some of the guilt. I find it's not enough to do anything about it, but I acknowledge that it's there.

None of this has anything to do with the different groups of Christians killing each other over their differences in how they follow Christ.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by glatt

Hey Classic, thanks for answering my questions. I'm not sure what other thread you are talking about, but it's possible we've talked about something similar before.

I didn't expect you to answer the way you did for one part, that the kids wouldn't be guilty to keep the money their dad had stolen. I figured you would find them guilty in some way if they did that. But it fits with what you were saying before about not feeling guilty for anything your ancestors have done.

I personally have a feeling that if we benefit somehow from bad things that our ancestors have done, then we share some of the guilt. I find it's not enough to do anything about it, but I acknowledge that it's there.

Guilt to me acknowledges some culpability and/or responsibility. As the questions were worded, I had to answer them the way I did. I have no control over another person.

There is a difference between guilt or remorse and empathy. If someone was wronged by my great grandfather, for example, thats on him not me. What could I have done about it? I wasn't there I wasn't born yet. I feel no responsibility for the actions of someone else, what difference does it make if they were/are a distant relative or a complete stranger? If my cousin kills someone, should I go to jail?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by classicman

I disagree with that - I am not guilty of anything that another human did. Especially what was done during a different time an place in the world. Things have changed so much so rapidly, especially the last 20-50 years, that to hold me somehow responsible for something someone else did seems ludicrous to me. But hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine.

Its usually never that simple.

Lets take glatt's example and expand on it. Lets say you are the son of someone who made a living off stealing money from others and your father never got caught. Now, because of the money your father stole, you were able to go to private school with a tutor, go to a nice college and get a good paying job (CEO lets say) while the families that your father stole from could not pay for college or even apply for loans and their children now had to work for you in a working class job.

You would at least have to acknowledge the fact that everything you have now is the result of your father's actions along with everything that the other children do not have. By exploiting the immoral actions of your father, how are you any different? If I steal a car and give it to you is it still not a stolen car? Do you still not bear some responsibility for it?

To go off in a tangent, this is the best reason why I do not believe in ideal justice. There is no good solution in this situation. Honestly, the best solution in my opinion would be for you to acknowledge that everything you have is the result of crime and not think yourself any better then the people that work for you, especially the children that your father stole from because the situation could easily have been switched.

Originally Posted by Classicman

Guilt to me acknowledges some culpability and/or responsibility. As the questions were worded, I had to answer them the way I did. I have no control over another person.

That brings me to this. If you still knowingly benefit from the fact that your lifestyle is the result of past crime, how you can not argue that you do not share at least some responsibility. Would you not feel bad if I robbed an old lady and then bought you a candy bar from that money? I mean....you didn't actually rob the old lady...