Somali pirates hijack Saudi oil tanker

[Cloud]

What kind of acts would you resort to if your children are starving? I'd resort to a hell of a lot.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cloud

What kind of acts would you resort to if your children are starving? I'd resort to a hell of a lot.

I'd become a pirate given the sucess they have had up to this point. And if I was conversely a ship owner I would mount machine guns on my decks and sink anyone who came close with the intent to take over.

They really should consider allowing private security groups to help them out in this case.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Cloud

What kind of acts would you resort to if your children are starving? I'd resort to a hell of a lot.

What makes you think these pirates have children?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What makes you think these pirates have children?

From some of the pictures I've seen, some of the pirates ARE children.

I agree Merc, that they should consider hiring private security and having machine guns on board. It is not up to the US Navy to act here. Those are private companies, it should be their expense.

[Elspode]

This is going to get uglier. The pirates will begin killing hostages...not only those they now have, but in all likelihood the crews of ships they board.

The pirates themselves have opened the door for any and all retaliation by the nature of their acts of piracy. Sad though it will be when they do start indiscriminately killing their hostages and the ship crews, it will then make it possible for the military forces of the world to simply blast these fuckers off the face of the planet, no questions asked.

Once those who take vessels end up dead *and* empty handed, piracy will no longer be quite so attractive.

Like I said, it is sad, but violent people only understand superior force. Sanity, rationality and anything other than violence is taken as a weakness to be exploited. When we talk about how underprivileged they are, we are being humane, but those who are engaged in wanton antisocial and lawless behaviors such as piracy would gladly take our money and our lives if we gave them a sliver of a chance.

I hold my sympathies back for those who aren't trying to steal and kill their ways out of their plights. If some underprivileged thug comes and steals my shit and threatens my family, my response is *not* going to be to go donate to the Save the Thugs fund.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Hmmm, are the shippers, or more accurately their insurance companies, paying ransom to get back their crews or their ships. It's easy to say both, but I wonder if they would still pay with the crew dead?

I think so... business is business.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Hmmm, are the shippers, or more accurately their insurance companies, paying ransom to get back their crews or their ships. It's easy to say both, but I wonder if they would still pay with the crew dead?

I think so... business is business.

There was a captain of a ship that had been attacked before on (I believe it was) CNN. He said (I'm paraphrasing) they didn't want to have armed guards on board because they felt it would escalate the situation (and also it is illegal in some countries), and it was more beneficial to just pay the money. So I guess in a sense he was saying paying the money was thought of as a cost of doing business in that part of the world.

Why would they pay if the crew/hostages are dead? If they start killing hostages, then I would think most countries would fight back.

The problem, apparently, is Somalia is ungovernable. In addition, a lot of this money is going to al qaeda. It is an international problem, and there needs to be an international solution.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

So I guess in a sense he was saying paying the money was thought of as a cost of doing business in that part of the world.

It's seen that way by the pirates as well, which can lead to a weird sense of entitlement, like with corrupt officials and bribery.

Why would they pay if the crew/hostages are dead? If they start killing hostages, then I would think most countries would fight back.

And vice versa. I don't think we did anything wrong in this case, but there is good reason to avoid escalation when possible.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Elspode

When we talk about how underprivileged they are, we are being humane, but those who are engaged in wanton antisocial and lawless behaviors such as piracy would gladly take our money and our lives if we gave them a sliver of a chance.

I hold my sympathies back for those who aren't trying to steal and kill their ways out of their plights. If some underprivileged thug comes and steals my shit and threatens my family, my response is *not* going to be to go donate to the Save the Thugs fund.

The point of being humane is not necessarily to stop previously violent individuals from being violent in the future but to prevent others from following the same violent path. There is most likely nothing that can be done to stop many of those people from killing and stealing but the goal of any humane work should be lowering the numbers that will start killing and stealing.

The reality of humanitarian aid actually working and whether it should be used is another story.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The point of being humane is not necessarily to stop previously violent individuals from being violent in the future but to prevent others from following the same violent path.

Mine the path.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

From some of the pictures I've seen, some of the pirates ARE children.

That changes nothing.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That changes nothing.

I didn't say it did. And I agreed with you.