Torture memos

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Y'know, thids is bizarre to me. If someone had said to me when i was younger, that in a decade or so, I would be having a conversation in which Americans were attempting to justify the use of torture on detainees, I'd never have believed it. I'd have believed it of my own country before I'd have believed it of yours.

C'mon, do you think Americans (or anyone else) don't abuse spouses, beat children, or kick puppies? People is people, but I digress.

Except for Dick Cheney and UG, I think most Americans don't approve of torturing detainees, foreign or domestic. But the wrinkle is, what constitutes torture? The Department of Justice, Army Field Manual and Geneva Convention, outlines are open to interpretation, especially when it applies to mental torture.

For example;

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;

Certainly the threat of rooming with Horny Bubba would cause me mental anguish, but it's not torture because it's "incidental to lawful sanctions".

Except where the interrogator,(or just a guard), is following a script, it remains up to the individuals sense of right/wrong. That becomes pretty subjective, especially in retrospect.

Some people would say puting milk in their tea, is torture.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Except for Dick Cheney and UG, I think most Americans don't approve of torturing detainees, foreign or domestic. But the wrinkle is, what constitutes torture? The Department of Justice, Army Field Manual and Geneva Convention, outlines are open to interpretation, especially when it applies to mental torture.

And back to the beginning we go. This was exactly my point. Its all up to interpretation.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Except where the interrogator,(or just a guard), is following a script, it remains up to the individuals sense of right/wrong. That becomes pretty subjective, especially in retrospect.

That is the point exactly. And all of these recently posted "new" definitions have come about after the fact after a specific event was uncovered.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That is the point exactly. And all of these recently posted "new" definitions have come about after the fact after a specific event was uncovered.

But I think everyone is real clear about waterboarding, especially after we convicted our enemies for it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yes, physical torture is more easily defined, although people will still be split on it, than mental torture.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by richlevy

But I think everyone is real clear about waterboarding, especially after we convicted our enemies for it.

Do you mean the Japanese version, where part of the procedure is getting kicked in the stomach during it?

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Do you mean the Japanese version, where part of the procedure is getting kicked in the stomach during it?

So the choking is ok, just not the kicking?

[tw]

Originally Posted by richlevy

So the choking is ok, just not the kicking?

According to wackos, pealing someone's skin off is not torture because that skin will grow back. Why are so many arguing silly semantics?

Same question remains unanswered. Do interrogate them or just inflict pain? Why do those who love torture not answer that question? Why do they even love choking - as if that does anything useful?

Five plus years ago, a warning to all Cellar dwellers described how confrontational America had become. Widespread is hate, fear, and 'big dic' thinking promoted by Limbaugh, Fox News, etc. Europeans would have little appreciation for the hate routinely broadcast daily on radio and TV.

How many non-Americans in The Cellar did not know five plus years ago and now appreciate how extremist some Americans are? That is not a rhetorical question. How many outside America now understand why the United States did a Pearl Harbor to Iraq? And now understand the source of hate even expressed against the French, Turks, Germans, etc.

Its interpretation? No. A question that American extremists will not answer. Do we interrogate them or just want to implement painful revenge? Other than DanaC, I am shocked how few outside America endorse torture by their silence.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by richlevy

But I think everyone is real clear about waterboarding, especially after we convicted our enemies for it.

I don't disagree with that fact.