Androgyny

[Elspode]

I do think that there is a question which bears asking...Ibram, do you *feel* androgynous? I mean, is your sexuality itself somewhat ambiguous at this point in your life, or are you planning on playing a part?

Having some notion of the purpose of your plan to change your outward expression might be enlightening...or at least generate some prurient interest.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I do think that there is a question which bears asking...Ibram, do you *feel* androgynous? I mean, is your sexuality itself somewhat ambiguous at this point in your life, or are you planning on playing a part?

I guess the answer would be, well, yeah... I dont really think of myself as a dude except in cases where, uh, anatomy come into play, cause I have no interest in masculinity or machismo, but I dont think of myself as a chick either. I kinda think having a solid line between male and female is kinda, well, pointless. A person is just a person, to me, not a boy or a girl, not a black person or a white person or an arab or a hispanic, but simply a person. That said, the ones with an, er, femminie physique are best to look at .

[BigV]

Turn around.

[MsSparkie]

Pat

From Wikpedia
Androgyny refers to two concepts. The first is the mixing of masculine and feminine characteristics, be it the example of the loud fashion statements of musicians like Ziggy Stardust or the balance of "anima" and "animus" in Jungian psychoanalytic theory. The second is in describing something that is neither masculine nor feminine, for example the Hijras of India who are often described as "neither man nor woman".

Androgynous traits are those that either have no gender value, or have some aspects generally attributed to the opposite gender. Physiological androgyny (compare intersex), which deals with physical traits, is distinct from behavioral androgyny which deals with personal and social anomalies in gender, and from psychological androgyny, which is a matter of gender identity. A psychologically androgynous person is commonly known as an androgyne, although there is a politicized version known as genderqueer.

To say that a culture or relationship is androgynous is to say that it lacks rigid gender roles and that the people involved display characteristics or partake in activities traditionally associated with the other gender. The term androgynous is often used to refer to a person whose look or build make determining their gender difficult but is generally not used as a synonym for actual intersexuality or transgender or two-spirit status of people.

Homosexual women who don't belong to either femme or butch type, and take a more neutral approach are known as Chapstick lesbians.

The word androgynous is derived from the Greek words andros (meaning man) and gynos (meaning woman).

Some famous people known for their androgynous appearances include Antony Hegarty, Brett Anderson, Gladys Bentley, Marc Bolan, Leigh Bowery, David Bowie, Pete Burns, Jaye Davidson, Marlene Dietrich, Mylène Farmer, Gackt, Boy George, Davey Havok, Norman Iceberg, Michael Jackson, Grace Jones, k.d.lang, Annie Lennox, Mana, Marilyn Manson, Shirley Manson, Kristen McMenamy, Katherine Moennig, Brian Molko, Gary Numan, Steve Strange, Rozz Williams, Carole Pope, Phranc, Susan Powter, Prince, Tilda Swinton and Patrick Wolf.

In fiction (particularly manga and anime), androgynous characters are growing in popularity. Examples include Envy from Full Metal Alchemist, Haku from Naruto, Rupi from Bleach, and Sailor Uranus from Sailor Moon.

Also known as cyndal.

Elves in fantasy-fiction are portrayed as androgynous.

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I don't think you want to look "genderless" or "gender neutral" but you want to attract everyone. Yes, David Bowie and Boy George have it nailed IMHO.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Trying to piss off the old man enough to send you back to the states?

[busterb]

I'm not sure the word famous really applies to any of the named people.
"Some famous people known for their androgynous appearances include Antony Hegarty, Brett Anderson, Gladys Bentley, Marc Bolan, Leigh Bowery, David Bowie, Pete Burns, Jaye Davidson, Marlene Dietrich, Mylène Farmer, Gackt, Boy George, Davey Havok, Norman Iceberg, Michael Jackson, Grace Jones, k.d.lang, Annie Lennox, Mana, Marilyn Manson, Shirley Manson, Kristen McMenamy, Katherine Moennig, Brian Molko, Gary Numan, Steve Strange, Rozz Williams, Carole Pope, Phranc, Susan Powter, Prince, Tilda Swinton and Patrick Wolf."

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by busterb

I'm not sure the word famous really applies to any of the named people.
"Some famous people known for their androgynous appearances include Antony Hegarty, Brett Anderson, Gladys Bentley, Marc Bolan, Leigh Bowery, David Bowie, Pete Burns, Jaye Davidson, Marlene Dietrich, Mylène Farmer, Gackt, Boy George, Davey Havok, Norman Iceberg, Michael Jackson, Grace Jones, k.d.lang, Annie Lennox, Mana, Marilyn Manson, Shirley Manson, Kristen McMenamy, Katherine Moennig, Brian Molko, Gary Numan, Steve Strange, Rozz Williams, Carole Pope, Phranc, Susan Powter, Prince, Tilda Swinton and Patrick Wolf."

I know Marc Bolan, David Bowie, Jaye Davidson, Marlene Dietrich, Boy George, Michael jackson, Grace Jones, k.d. lang, Annie Lennox, Marilyn Manson, Shirley Manson, Gary numan, Susan Powter and Prince.

[skysidhe]

Glam Rocker image I thought. Am I right Ibram?

[Ibby]

Not completely glam-rock image, really... and MsSparkie, I really am kind of aiming for a gender-neutral image.

And Bruce... that's just a plus.

[Spexxvet]

Wear pastel colored (but man tailored) clothing, put your hair in a pony tail, a hat other than baseball cap, clogs, and rings. nothing permanent, all ambiguous.

[Elspode]

We had a young man in our coven for awhile who had much the same attitude, Ibram. He explained that, as regards sexuality anyway, that he refused to limit who he might be in love with because of some arbitrary set of socialogical gender standards.

Interestingly enough, he's going to "NASCAR College" to learn to be a pit crewman. Not exactly an androgynous sort of profession - but who knows? Maybe in twenty years, David will have effected a quantum change in NASCAR's target audience.

[Ibby]

For me its not so much about who I'll love (I am bi, but I have a girlfriend that I love very very much, and its irrelivant to this topic anyway), its more about what I can and can't do or say or think.

[xoxoxoBruce]

If you want to avoid people making assumptions about you because you are male, remember they'll make assumptions for looking/being androgynous.

I see a conflict between wanting to be accepted as you are and trying to remake yourself into something that didn't come about naturally.
Experiment, have fun, just be careful of making a permanent commitment to something your not going to be comfortable with later.

[limey]

Originally Posted by Ibram

For me its not so much about who I'll love (I am bi, but I have a girlfriend that I love very very much, and its irrelivant to this topic anyway), its more about what I can and can't do or say or think.

Why do you think that how you look will affect what you "can or can't do or say or think"? Why not just do, say and think what you want, regardless of how you look? (That's what I do ).

[Ibby]

Ah, but I think the assumptions made for androgyny would be closer to truth. I don't care so much if I'm accepted for who I am, as long as I AM who I am (no popeye references, please). TAS (my school) is rather on the homophobic side, but that dosent bother me (well, yes, it bothers me, but in a "DAMN thats stupid and annoying" way, not in a "*sniffle* nobody likes me..." way).

And I'm not gonna do anything that can't be reversed, which is why I'm no so cool with a haircut or earrings.