Club hatin'

[Elspode]

Unfortunately, in current society, only white Protestant males are capable of discrimination. Everyone else is a victim.

[bluecuracao]

I don't know what the deal is with Curves, but one doesn't have to actually be Black to be eligible for NAACP membership, I don't think. That might've been the problem your school had with the club--eligibility based on ethnic background. Though it doesn't sound like they were very clear about it, and overreacted instead.

Incidentally, my college has a school-sanctioned German Club--but you don't have to be German to join.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I don't know what the deal is with Curves....

Something everybody should know about Curves: the owner and founder is the most intensely right-wing radical that a woman would ever hope not to meet. The money that women pay Curves goes to sponsor abortion clinic shutdowns, religious right programming, the defeat of ERA legislation, and the election of ultra-conservative candidates. This person actually has a Texas ranch next to George Bush! His greatest inspiration is The 700 Club. He talks like a televangelist and spends like one too. The person who gets the money you pay to Curves uses it for the REPRESSION of women and the elimination of their hard-earned rights in today's society. Boycott Curves!!!

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Something everybody should know about Curves: the owner and founder is the most intensely right-wing radical that a woman would ever hope not to meet...~snip~ Boycott Curves!!!

Any links would be appreciated. My sister in laws family owns several in the Wisconsin area.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I don't know what the deal is with Curves, but one doesn't have to actually be Black to be eligible for NAACP membership, I don't think.

They get a lot of their funding from guilty white liberals.

Consider this, when was the last time the United Negro College Fund gave money to a white kid?

Incidentally, my college has a school-sanctioned German Club--but you don't have to be German to join.

German Language, not ethnicity, I'll bet.

[Elspode]

Unfortunately, in current society, only white Protestant males are capable of discrimination. Everyone else is a victim.

I hope you are being sarcastic.

I am merely stating what the general view in society is. Think about it...what is the success rate for so-called reverse discrimination cases? There's no doubt that it exists, but society doesn't acknowledge it. You're white, you're male, so you're the problem. Most of the rest of society is pretty comfortable with that, I think.

As Wolf notes, when was the last time the UNCF gave a white kid college money? Never. So it is discriminatory. However, no one is going to tell the UNCF they are discriminatory, because, in this country, at this time, the accepted direction of discrimination is *from* white people, mostly male, *to* everyone else. This perception then makes any action on the part of the allegedly downtrodden (at least, to behave in any way they want short of violence) justified, and therefore allowable.

I'm sure that there are rare exceptions to this generalization, but they are so rare that none come immediately to mind.

[Crimson Ghost]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I thought this thread would be against a suit of playing cards. I was going to jump on the band wagon. Spades, hearts, and diamonds are way better than clubs!

I've always felt that equality is equality. That means if you can't have an all-male gym, you can't have a Curves. If you have a NAACP, there should be a NAAWP. Even-Steven, fair playing field. I acknowledge that the feild has been slanted in the European-American favor for a long time. So make the playing field flat, not slanted in anybody's favor!

There is a NAAWP.
However, it is a "White Power" association.

Originally Posted by Elspode

Unfortunately, in current society, only white Protestant males are capable of discrimination. Everyone else is a victim.

Um, everyone discriminates. It's just to what amount you do it.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I don't know what the deal is with Curves, but one doesn't have to actually be Black to be eligible for NAACP membership, I don't think. That might've been the problem your school had with the club--eligibility based on ethnic background. Though it doesn't sound like they were very clear about it, and overreacted instead.

Incidentally, my college has a school-sanctioned German Club--but you don't have to be German to join.

From what I understand, Curves is a weightloss 'clinic' (for lack of a better term) that caters to women.
NAACP - National Association for the Advancement of Colored People - I believe being black is a prerequisite. But, everyone is 'colored'. Some are brown, some are pinkish, some are caramel colored...
Incidentally, if you don't need to be German to join a German Club, what is the reason for the club? And does that mean my blood rune tattoo is for naught?

[breakingnews]

This political correctness shit has gotten out of hand. (This is primarily a U.S. phenomenon, no?)

These kinds of situations keep nipping people in the ass is because, well, relatively few people give a shit. The world is racist and there's nothing that can be done about it. We all discriminate in our own little ways. No amount of education or experience could overturn our inherent social behaviorial patterns.

What do you think would happen if the courts refused to hear discrimination cases?

You always hear about these "landmark" court cases ... but many of those cases affect such a small population. They fade from the spotlight and poof, who cares.

Like the guy who sued Hooters for hiring only women. The guy who sued Curves. Shannon Faulkner, the girl who sued to get into the Citadel.

All individuals wanting to make a point. Sure, from a technical/legal/constitutional perspective, it may be ... educational ... to highlight these situations. But why do these people want to put themselves in those situations? Would it be possible for us to simply accept that there are exceptions and not waste time/money arguing cases that benefit only 0.005% of the population?

I do not want to work at Hooters. I do not want to join your club. But I do recognize that not having the choice to do so goes against democratic ideals. Still, do we have to be so damn attentive to everyone's bitching and moaning?

Originally Posted by breakingnews

This political correctness shit has gotten out of hand. (This is primarily a U.S. phenomenon, no?)

These kinds of situations keep nipping people in the ass is because, well, relatively few people give a shit. The world is racist and there's nothing that can be done about it. We all discriminate in our own little ways. No amount of education or experience could overturn our inherent social behaviorial patterns.

What do you think would happen if the courts refused to hear discrimination cases?

You always hear about these "landmark" court cases ... but many of those cases affect such a small population. They fade from the spotlight and poof, who cares.

Like the guy who sued Hooters for hiring only women. The guy who sued Curves. Shannon Faulkner, the girl who sued to get into the Citadel.

All individuals wanting to make a point. Sure, from a technical/legal/constitutional perspective, it may be ... educational ... to highlight these situations. But why do these people want to put themselves in those situations? Would it be possible for us to simply accept that there are exceptions and not waste time/money arguing cases that benefit only 0.005% of the population?

I do not want to work at Hooters. I do not want to join your club. But I do recognize that not having the choice to do so goes against democratic ideals. Still, do we have to be so damn attentive to everyone's bitching and moaning?

A private club has nothing to do with "democratic ideals"... anyway, America is a Republic.

... cont'

Servanthood may not be today's normal model for business success, but that hasn't stopped the Heavins. In 2003, the couple gave away $10 million — 10 percent of their company's gross revenues and 80 percent of Gary's net income — to charities. Heavin matches the first $1,000 that each franchise raises for community causes such as walkathons to benefit pro-life pregnancy-care centers. Such controversial stances have led to criticism, but Heavin is unfazed. "There's nothing healthy about abortion," he says. "I'm not afraid to tell the truth."
In a correction published 4 May 2004, The San Francisco Chronicle said: "A Ruth Rosen column Thursday — 'What's wrong with curves?' — stated that three 'pregnancy crisis centers' that received $5 million from Curves owner Gary Heavin were 'supported by Operation Save America.' The column was referring to Operation Save America's verbal endorsement of the centers, not financial support."

On 13 May 2004, The San Francisco Chronicle published a further correction to information contained in both the Rosen and Carroll pieces:

Two recent columns contained errors involving contributions made by Gary Heavin, founder and CEO of Curves, the women's fitness chain.

Ruth Rosen's April 29 opinion-page column stated that Heavin "has given at least $5 million of his profits to some of the most militant anti-abortion groups in the country." That characterization is not accurate.

The column specified that the money went to "three Texas organizations to fund 'pregnancy crisis centers.'" Only one of the recipients, Care Net, operates pregnancy crisis centers that are designed to dissuade pregnant women from having abortions while offering other support services to encourage adoption. Heavin has pledged to give Care Net $1 million over the next five years, according to a Curves spokeswoman.

The largest of the pledges — $3.75 million over five years — goes to the Family Practice Center of McLennan County, which provides a variety of health-care services to Central Texas residents, many of whom are uninsured, according to the Curves spokeswoman. The Catholic-run center does not provide abortions but is not actively involved in the anti-abortion movement, the center's CEO said.

The other recipient of Heavin's pledge, $250,000 over five years, was the McLennan County Collaborative Abstinence Project, which promotes sexual abstinence among teens. Its director said that, as a matter of policy, its staff would not discuss abortion when making presentations.

The column presented the contributions as a percentage of the company's annual gross revenues. But the Curves spokeswoman said that those pledges, as well as millions of dollars in donations to a wide range of charities, came from Heavin's personal wealth.

The column also referred to Heavin's comments in a "recent Christianity Today" article that he "is proud to support these organizations." In fact, the interview was published in the January-February issue of Today's Christian, a magazine affiliated with Christianity Today. In it, Heavin expressed his anti-abortion views but did not talk about his support for any specific organization.

In addition, Jon Carroll, in his April 20 Datebook column, erred in referring to Heavin's comments as appearing in "Christianity Today" and by stating that Heavin "donates 10 percent of Curves profits" to "anti-choice groups." He also wrote that Heavin's recipients were allied with Operation Save America, a radical anti-abortion group. As stated in a May 4 clarification on Rosen's column, Operation Save America has praised those recipients on its Web site but does not provide financial support, nor does it have a formal alliance with them.

The Chronicle regrets the errors.
Gary Heavin is far from the first successful businessman to underwrite reproductive causes — Tom Monaghan of Domino's Pizza and Carl Karcher, founder of the California-based hamburger chain Carl's Jr., have been very open and public regarding their support of the pro-life philosophy, just as Warren Buffett, ranked by Forbes magazine as the second-richest man in the world, has been forthcoming about his backing of pro-choice programs. In each instance, these men are acting as private citizens who choose to bestow parts of their fortunes on the causes they believe in, not as officers of their corporations. The money is theirs to do with as they please, just as anyone's paycheck belongs to the person who earns it and stops being the employer's money at the moment it is paid out. That a spendthrift employee might choose to gamble away his earnings doesn't mean the company he works for supports gambling; likewise, that a wealthy man financially supports particular causes doesn't mean the corporation that paid him the money favors those movements.

All this is by way of saying that while it's correct to identify Gary Heavin as a patron of pro-life endeavors, it would not be right to point to Curves as a supporter of those same causes.

Barbara "cause and effect" Mikkelson

Additional information:

Curves International web site

Last updated: 13 May 2004

The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/curves.asp

I know you were... I was being "difficult", sorry bout' that.
You don't need to apologize, I do, and I do.

[Shawnee123]

No, I am sorry. Been feeling down, ignored, unloved, unappreciated...at home and at work...and I guess I was just hoping I could feel the opposite somewhere. I swear the slightest thing anymore upsets me. This is why I normally stick to the fun threads, it seems that all I do or say is "wrong." If there were any cliffs in Ohio I might drive my car off one.

Sorry

Trust me, I understand. Again, I am very sorry for being an ass. I have not been myself lately.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by wolf

Consider this, when was the last time the United Negro College Fund gave money to a white kid?

I don't know. I wonder how often white kids apply for scholarships through UNCF? Looks like a lot of the scholarships they offer are open to anyone depending on GPA, financial need and/or participating schools (like Historically Black Colleges, which anyone can attend). I found this on their web site:

"UNCF was founded to address the funding inequities regarding educational resources for African Americans. UNCF believes in higher education opportunities for all Americans, however. Though most funding supports African American students, UNCF member schools do not discriminate and UNCF administered scholarships are open to all ethnic groups."

Originally Posted by Crimson Ghost

NAACP - National Association for the Advancement of Colored People - I believe being black is a prerequisite.

No, I don't think so...I'm not black (or a guilty white liberal )

>>Thank you for joining the NAACP, the nation's largest and oldest civil rights organization. You will receive a membership card within three weeks and a subscription to the historic Crisis Magazine, founded by W.E.B. Dubois.

Your commitment to civil rights helps us to create an America where each individual has equal rights under the law. Because of your support, our great organization can do the vital work of civil rights advocacy around the nation. Your membership is greatly appreciated, Freedom Fighter.

Again, thank you for standing with us for justice and equality for all Americans.<<

[Spexxvet]

This seems to segue well into a discussion of Affirmative Action. Any comments?