Watching The Snowball

[Flint]

When he says "we’ve never been stay the course" he means we've never had a "stay the course" philosophy...or, that we did, but the good way...not the bad way. He may have said "stay the course" but he meant it in whatever way can be criticized least...this week.

Or something. Hell, I don't know.

[Spexxvet]

He was talking about soup and appetizer versus main course.

[Happy Monkey]

Bush was all "STAY the course", and Stephanopoulos was all "Stay the COURSE?", and Bush was all "no, no - STAY the course", and Stephanopoulos was all "Stay THE course?".

Cut and run?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by tw

Andy Rooney of CBS News (a legendary TV news magazine) 60 Minutes

Who doesn't know this?

plus, dude, relax. CAN you relax? I fear your PTSD has taken over.


Dammit. Now I've responded to a tw post. Damn my hide.

Damn it good.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Who doesn't know this?

plus, dude, relax. CAN you relax?

Brianna, why do you so hate America? Tone reflects the seriousness of those posts. We are not talking about sex in the Oval Office. We are talking about useless murder of Americans. Why do you, Brianna, so hate America as to not even criticize torture, extraordinary rendition, wiretapping without judicial review, secret prisons, etc. Same reasons why four died in O-Hi-O.

53% of America do not know. Even though a majority has only recently agreed with my four year old posts, still (as also happened during Nixon and Vietnam), a majority remain opposed to a necessary unilateral withdrawal. Yes "Who doesn't know this?" Many. Notice the many with so little grasp as to criticize Gen Dannatt.

The bastard even went to CA for a campaign fund raiser as a category 5 hurricane was attacking a city designed only for category 3. But again, how many must die?

Accurately defined long before "Mission Accomplished" was proclaimed were obvious facts such as 'no smoking gun', 'no strategic objective', and therefore 'no exit strategy'. Even 'mission creep' was inevitable. Iraq was denied both four years ago and still denied 2800+ dead Americans later. George Jr administration demonstrates contempt for the troops. Do you?

Probably 10,000 wounded Americans because so many had facts and yet still oppose a withdrawal. Many stay quiet and still oppose the inevitable - just like Nam. Withdrawal is not obvious to most Americans. Over 10,000 casualties for what purpose? So we can 'stay the course'? Bring it on? Religious extremists who actually do vote and who want Armageddon (most here do not vote) – do you really think they who do vote understand why withdrawal is our only option? Need we wait - like during Nixon - for that number to reach 20,000? How many thousand more will die before we admit defeat? How many more amputees need we create?

They don't decide to become a casualty. We make that decision. How many more must die?

[headsplice]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Dammit. Now I've responded to a tw post. Damn my hide.
Damn it good.

If you'd like a good scrubbing, the local fire deparment can hose you down. I hear they have a special crew, just for that.
And TW, calm yourself, child. Anti-American? Seriously? You sound like the R's you villify so frequently. At first I thought it was mockery, and now I realize you're serious.

[Happy Monkey]

Of course he's not backing away from staying the course. That would be nonsense.

[BigV]

This from a President who doesn't do nuance.

“I don’t give a goddamn, I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way. Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!“
~ George W. Bush, 2005-11

[BigV]

From Wikipedia:

In the United States, the oath of office for the President of the United States is specified in the U.S. Constitution (Article II, Section 1):

Originally Posted by The President

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

[Pangloss62]

So let's get this right. Tony Snow, the White House press secretary, said
that W. constantly using the term "stay the course" "...left the wrong
impression." Really? So why the hell had he been using it so much before?
So what is Snow saying, that W. stopped using the term on his own, or that
Rove TOLD HIM to stop using it?

Why is it that after weeks and weeks of Bush saying we must "stay the
course" that only now his minions determine that it "gives the wrong
impression?" You think it's because all the polls say that people are mad
at his previous "stay the course" philosophy, not to mention the rationale
for going to war in the first place? Remember, Snow's spin is coming from
the same organization that fed "fake" news to TV stations around the
country. How about "Mission Accomplished?" So either we have a president
that, when he thinks on his own, "gives the wrong impression," or we have a
PR Firm that has read the tea leaves of public opinion and has dropped one
of their tag lines from the W. rhetoric machine. Either W is the
intellectual dunce many believe him to be, or he is just a mouthpiece for a
PR firm. Either scenario is pretty scary.

And while I do think the Democrats are great at turning lemonade into
lemons, is it really their place to come up with a "plan" for withdrawal
from Iraq? It's not like they have much political power to do so (at least
now). I can just see Nancy Pelosi handing a withdrawal plan to Rummey:
"Here Mr. Rusmfeld; run with it! The first part of the plan is that you
get fired!"

Here's a piece from today's NYT:


Brother of N.F.L. Star Posts Antiwar Essay

By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
Published: October 24, 2006
LOS ANGELES, Oct. 23 â?? A brother of Pat Tillman, the National Football
League player who was killed in combat in Afghanistan after leaving his
sports career to serve in the Army, has lashed out at the Iraq war in an
essay published online.


Pat Tillman, center, who was killed in Afghanistan in 2004, with his
brothers Richard, left, and Kevin at his wedding in San Jose, Calif.



Go to Election GuideMore Politics NewsThe brother, Kevin Tillman, who was
in the same Army Ranger unit as Pat Tillman, a corporal who was killed on
April 22, 2004, by fire from his fellow soldiers under circumstances that
the Pentagon continues to investigate, sharply criticized American
political leadership and called the war â??an illegal invasion.â??

â??Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal
invasion becomes,â?? Mr. Tillman wrote in the 660-word essay that was posted
on Thursday on Truthdig .com, a Web magazine offering news and opinion from
a â??progressive point of view.â??

â??Somehow,â?? Mr. Tillman added, â??American leadership, whose only credit is
lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to
steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.â??

In what are apparently his most expansive public remarks since the death of
his brother at age 27, he also does not spare the American public, which he
suggests too often relies on superficial gestures to support the troops
instead of holding politicians accountable.

â??Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a 5-year-old
kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas or
slapping stickers on cars or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a
helmet,â?? he wrote.

Mr. Tillman ended with a suggestion that the elections on Nov. 7 are an
opportunity for people opposed to the war to send a message.

â??Luckily this country is still a democracy,â?? he wrote. â??People still have
a
voice. People can still take action. It can start after Patâ??s birthday,â??
Nov. 6.

Despite Pat Tillmanâ??s fame and the outpouring of emotion after his death,
the Tillman family has generally kept a distance from antiwar protesters,
though they have often spoken of their efforts to find the truth about what
happened. Family members did not answer messages for comment on Kevin
Tillmanâ??s posting.

A spokeswoman for the Pat Tillman Foundation in San Jose, Calif., where the
Tillmans grew up, said, â??It is our understanding that Kevin Tillman is not
accepting interview requests.â??

Pat Tillman, a safety for the Arizona Cardinals, left the team in spring
2002 to join the Army along with Kevin Tillman, motivated in part by the
Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and eventually training as a Ranger. After a stint
in Iraq, the brothers were sent to Afghanistan.

Pat Tillman died, the Army eventually concluded, after members of his own
unit shot him as they searched for enemy fighters in a canyon in
southeastern Afghanistan. An Afghan soldier fighting next to him also died.

Kevin Tillmanâ??s essay was posted as Pentagon investigators close in on the
latest of several investigations into the case. Initially, the Army had
suggested that enemy fire had killed Pat Tillman. Later, the Army conceded
that his comrades had shot him.

Under pressure from the family and members of Congress, the inspector
general of the Defense Department and the Army Criminal Investigation
Command are examining the actions of members of Mr. Tillmanâ??s unit and the
initial investigation.

Daniel Kohns, a spokesman for Representative Michael M. Honda of
California, a Democrat from San Jose, who pushed for the investigations,
said Pentagon representatives said a month ago that they expected to
complete their work by the end of November or early December.

A spokesman for the Pentagon said Monday that the investigations were
continuing. He declined to comment on Kevin Tillmanâ??s essay.

Robert Scheer, a liberal syndicated columnist and the editor of Truthdig,
based in Santa Monica, Calif., said he had written about the case and had
spoken to family members in the past.

Kevin Tillmanâ??s article was not solicited, Mr. Scheer said, and the site
agreed to Mr. Tillmanâ??s conditions for posting it. The conditions were that
it be posted unchanged aside from grammatical editing, including the
headline he had written, â??After Patâ??s Birthday.â??

Mr. Scheer said Mr. Tillman had made it known that, after leaving the
military last year, he felt now was time to speak out, with his brotherâ??s
birthday approaching. Pat Tillman also had expressed anger about the war to
friends, several published reports have said.

â??He is not proselytizing, he is not a political person,â?? Mr. Scheer said of
Kevin Tillman. â??He just decided because his birthday was coming up he felt
strongly that he had to say something.â??

Since the article went up on the Web site, it has received more than 4,000
responses, though Web server limits have prohibited publishing that many,
Mr. Scheer said.

[tw]

Originally Posted by headsplice

At first I thought it was mockery, and now I realize you're serious.

If you think I posted anything emotional, then get your ears on - you don't yet know what may be coming We are now at the edge of a cliff in Iraq. It is that desperate. Total withdrawal (military defeat) is our only option in a few months. Total disintegration of Iraq will be inevitable; determined by what we do in a next few months. All options will terminate probably at then end of this year. Tell me where panic is in this reality.

Did you notice an emergency deployment of aircraft carriers apparently to the Gulf? Why not? If you think for one minute that I have expressed emotions - then insufficient grasp of logic exists. Most every Cellar Dweller was in ostrich mode years ago - denying what was regarded as an alarmist posts. Did you foresee a thousand dead Americans years ago? Why not? Because that reality was too alarmist back then?

I don't mock. That you even suspected mockery suggests an ostrich grasp of reality still remains. 10,000 casualties is not for one minute an emotion – it is a fact. If you perceive emotion in what was posted, then why is your grasp of reality not so ruthless?

To not stand up for the troops now - to "Stay the Course" - is to hate soldiers as we did to the troops in Vietnam. 20,000 casualties was not mockery. 20,000 is directly traceable to indecision and a lying president. ‘Calm down’ suggests one is too many years behind reality – also called ‘denial’. Nothing posted was emotional. That attitude will be normal in a few years if we don’t save those troops lives now.

They don’t decide to be wasted casualties. We do that - now. Options are about to expire. How many thousands will die is decided in these next few months by us. One who does not see the cliff would say, “Calm down”. Do you see that cliff, headsplice? If not, then why not ... is what you should be asking. All options are about to expire. Why do you not yet see the cliff?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Of course he's not backing away from staying the course.

"Rumsfeld Agrees Bush Is ‘Not Backing Away From Staying The Course’" Of course. There are only two options. 500,000 troops in-country for one year. Or complete withdrawal - a military defeat. Anything else is 'stay the course'. And stay the course means 20,000 casualties. 'Stay the course' is what a Cellar dweller promotes if not demanding either 500,000 troops now or a complete withdrawal (surrender).

There are no other options. Decision is that simple. And options are about to expire.

[Spexxvet]

Why are the Democrats politicizing "stay the course"? Why did they wait until just before the election to ... wait a minute...

[9th Engineer]

Ah, so you give us a 'one or the other' choice between agreeing with you and what you have made tantamount to murder. You really are starting to sound like the GOP tw