City in Texas ...to keep out illegal immigrants,

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Again, I can only see it in simplistic terms - if they are illegal (regardless of race, colour, background) they should not be living and working in the country.

If America needs them, it will learn pretty fast and can increase the number allowed to enter legally.

I do understand it is difficult to police the borders and monitor the situation, but I can't see why anyone would have a problem with a country that upheld its own laws - I certainly do not see that as racist.

It is not racist...
I also do not see how this is "too far" when it is just asking cops to do their job, enforcing existing laws. Just ignorant.
I can see the day where people say, "I wonder if we should let those cops arrest those buglers or not, hmmmmmm?"
There is no need to pass any new, more strict laws, perform illegal search and seizures, break anyone's civil rights (they are not citizens), or anything like that... just enforce current law as it exists. If people don't like it, they need to lobby for change, just like I do through NORMAL for change to marijuana law. I don't advocate circumventing the law to achieve those goals, I advocate changing them. The illegal market and culture for it harms this nation, just like illegal immigrants harm this nation.

MASS. REPUBLICAN GOV. SIGNS AGREEMENT REGARDING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
It helps to be conservative if youre going after conservative voters. But some people think Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney might be going too far. Romney has recently been highly critical of the U.S. immigration policy, staunchly supporting the building of a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border to stop illegal immigrants from coming in. Today he signed an agreement that will allow Massachusetts state troopers to detain illegal aliens they come across during their daily duties. Problem is, Romney will no longer be governor come January 4. And his successor, Democratic Governor-elect Deval Patrick, is not in favor of the plan. So some suspect that the Republican presidential prospect is making this move to burnish his conservative bona fides as he weighs a White House run. And then theres this: the Boston Globe recently reported that the landscaper who works on Romneys house employs illegal aliens. The Globe reported that Romneys office said the governor did not know the status of the landscaping workers and that the matter would be investigated.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Yes, there have been times in our history when there was less fear of foreigners, but overall, it runs in cycles.

For a perspective "from the other side," I highly recommend to everyone the documentary Wetback. Gives a painfully clear idea of how complicated and far-reaching the issue really is.

I don't think it is about "fear" I think it is about wanting those who are in this nation to be here legally and to comply with this wishes of this government.
As for myself, I grew-up in the citrus industry, have been the foreman for many crews of those some would call "wetbacks". So, I have intimate knowledge of that culture... no ignorance, or fear, here and I still feel the way I do. All in this nation need to comply with immigration laws or leave. It is not personal, some are even members of my family now, some I call friend, I don't look at it on an individual basis, this is a legal issue and NOTHING else. Those that try to make it something else are just trying to confuse the issue to try to keep their side alive because the lobby is not as strong as they would like, IMO.

It is a great red herring to show how terrible it is to come here "so many die, the wages are so much lower, they get robbed, they don't see their families when they want because they can't cross back and forth, etc, etc, etc...". Then we get the whole American Guilt about how we pay them less when they are here, even though that harms us and our market by driving American wages down, so it actually is them harming us.
The truth of it is, if they came here legally they would not deal with all the terrible things they went through, they would be paid American salaries (good for them, good for us) and they could visit their families as they wished, and my final point (get your flame keyboard ready) is that if things are so damn bad in their nation they should stay there and make it better for everyone like Americans did in the depression and other hard times. Corruption? Run for office or start a revolution. Behind, become a scientist... though I believe Mexico is not behind in that respect. You get the picture. As I have stated elsewhere, there is not a nation anywhere where the people cannot remove the government if they deem.
Finally, those from Central America are not the only illegal immigrants and it does not matter who they are... if they are breaking the law. Here in FL we have a real problem with illegal Canadians, lot of taxes lost, they need to comply with the law. No hate, no racism, no xenophobia, just law. Why is this such a difficult thing to accept?

[Elspode]

According to Rep. Steve King, illegal aliens commit 12 murders every day in the U.S. and kill another 13 daily through drunk driving incidents.

That's more than 9,000 people killed every year by illegal aliens.

Those are deaths that could be caused by honest American citizens, too. Not only are illegal aliens taking our jobs, but they're taking away our victims! Something must be done.

[DanaC]

*chuckles*

[lookout123]

i say make it a lot easier to come in legally. and then inforce immigration laws without fail. i say if you're caught in the US illegally once you get a bus ticket to mexico city. (even if you're from canada) if you get caught twice we fly you back and drop you on mexico city. every third person gets a parachute. if you get caught a third time. ah, screw it - you should be shot for being stupid.

[9th Engineer]

I'm sure alot of politicians would jump at the chance to ease immigration laws. It's the quickest way to make a problem go away in their minds, just scratch out the rule that says it's their responsibility. At one time or another someone wrote the current laws for a reason, whoever is responsible for reform needs to look at when and why these laws were written the way they are. If the reasons still hold then we shouldn't change the laws, and if they do, well someone'd better put some serious thought into it.

[DanaC]

Very well put 9th.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No, no, no.......if they do that, they'll lose a political rally point that's right up there with abortion and gay marriage....... and more importantly, tw will have to shell out more for his veggies.

[skysidhe]

illegal immigrants has become synonymous with illegal mexican now?

well yes, a dumb question I suppose.

I am for educating immigrants in english, manners and customs because there is a small place in my town where they seem to have none of the above.


Oh and how to weed out the criminals who think this is the wild wild west? How does one arrest someone that dosn't exsist on paper?

Hell, in FL, people don't even have to be immigrants to be ignorant of the English language, manners and customs.
Plenty who have been born and raised here can't speak a lick of the language.
Even though I can speak pidgin Spanish and am learning more... I will only speak English to them. There is NO excuse for someone to be in a country for any number of years and not know the language.

[bluecuracao]

But Florida ain't in England, and I really don't see the problem with being ignorant of 'English' manners and customs (no offense to our Brit friends). In the U.S., you may consider your particular manners and customs to be 'normal,' but to someone with a different cultural background--of which the U.S. is made up of many--your behavior may come off as inappropriate.

"Inappropriate" how?

[orthodoc]

English is the language spoken here - I don't think anyone is insisting on British manners or customs. It's not inappropriate to expect people to learn the common language of the country when they've decided to make this their permanent home.

The multi-cultural experiment in Canada is something that people here should take a careful look at before rejecting the melting pot. Official multiculturalism in Canada was idealistic in its original intent - respect for different backgrounds, cultures, mores, and manners, and the hope that people retaining their 'heritage' would all live harmoniously and cooperatively together. In practice, the policy has balkanized Canada, with many cultural groups competing for government resources and pushing political agendas that have little to do with Canada's wellbeing as a country. There isn't a sense of what Canada is (other than NOT AMERICA - anti-American hatred is probably the sole unifying principle there) or of where the country should be going. No one is required or even expected to learn either of the country's official languages. This creates havoc when people have to interact with the government, attempt to obtain health care, etc. Toronto has been trying to figure out how to provide 911 services in hundreds of different languages. Not possible!

In the end, I think it's important for immigrants to a new country to be willing to embrace that country's language and general culture. Every country needs a reasonable degree of cohesiveness on these things, or it will eventually fragment.

Who is suggesting we reject the melting pot? I have yet to see anyone state that we should discourage legal immigration.
As someone who is fascinated and studies other culture's religions, foods and morays, I respect them far more than most common Americans.
American "culture" is made-up of a consensus of many cultures, and it will continue to do that... so I could care less if anyone adopts "US Culture".
They just need to learn the language and laws.
Our documents, courts, signs, schools and business needs to conducted in one language, our laws have to be understood and there is only one way to be sure that is happening.
Other than that, dress, eat, worship and live as you like, within the law.

[orthodoc]

I haven't seen anyone state that we should discourage legal immigration either, nor have I said that.

My point was that a country with no cohesive culture and an emphasis on its residents thinking of themselves as belonging to some other society first does not function well as a nation. I disagree that all that immigrants need is to know the language and laws. If there is no common sense of identity and purpose, a society will not achieve anything of value; it will pull itself apart.

[DanaC]

America was built on disparate and different communities, each of which had a foot in their old world and a foot in their new world. It's what (imo) made you the strong and vibrant nation that you now are.