Finger pointing at its best ;)

[classicman]

I guess hanging around this guy is an example of "good judgment"

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by classicman

I guess hanging around this guy is an example of "good judgment"

This guy was awarded the Citizen of the Year in 1997 by Chicago. Mayor Richard Daley called him "a valued member of the Chicago community."

[xoxoxoBruce]

From dar's link...

Whatever his past, Ayers is now a respected member of the Chicago intelligentsia, and still a member of the Woods Fund Board. The president of the Woods Fund, Deborah Harrington, said he had been selected for the board because of his solid academic credentials and "passion for social justice."

Obama doesn't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

This guy was awarded the Citizen of the Year in 1997 by Chicago. Mayor Richard Daley called him "a valued member of the Chicago community."

Sens. Barack Obama & Dick Durbin, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Gov. Rod Blogojevich, House leader Mike Madigan, Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan, Mayor Richard Daley...our leadership in Illinois...all Democrats.
State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country. Cook County ( Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. (Look 'em up if you want). Chicago school system one of the worst in country. This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois.

[Pico and ME]

OMG

Classic is regurgitating the current GOP campaign strategy play-by-play.

[dar512]

Fact check

Instead of recycling this same old stuff, convince me that McCain is a better man and has got a better plan.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by dar512

Instead of recycling this same old stuff, convince me that McCain is a better man and has got a better plan.

I'm not recycling shit. I am trying to make a decision. Everything here is so slanted toward one side, its sickening. It seems to me that many of you all are simply voting against Bush as much as for Obama. Sounds to me like you are the one recycling a party line.

Lets turn your question back on you, since your mind is made up - YOU tell me why Obama is the better man. Better yet - put the two side by side and list all their accomplishments, stances, associations and so on...

[dar512]

Originally Posted by classicman

I'm not recycling shit. I am trying to make a decision. Everything here is so slanted toward one side, its sickening. It seems to me that many of you all are simply voting against Bush as much as for Obama. Sounds to me like you are the one recycling a party line.

Lets turn your question back on you, since your mind is made up - YOU tell me why Obama is the better man. Better yet - put the two side by side and list all their accomplishments, stances, associations and so on...

You are correct in that at least part of my hesitation to vote for McCain comes from the fact the he's of the same party as Bush.

He uses the term maverick a lot in order to distance himself from Bush, but I haven't heard anything from him that gives me a warm fuzzy that he really is substantively different.

I have three huge issues with the current administration.
1) We have focused military attention on Iraq, which should never have been done. If we hadn't been distracted by Iraq, I bet we'd have Osama by now.
2) Attempts to grow the influence of the administrative branch of the government. See Palin's verbiage from the VP debate on the importance of the VP role.
3) The de facto reduction in the rights of citizens. I don't want the government to have the right to spy on me without severe limitations in place.

I haven't heard anything from the Rs to make me believe that these things would change under McCain. In fact I was surprised that Palin was so bold in her discussion of enlarging the role of the VP.

So I started out leaning Dem.

Then came the olympics where the Obama ads talked about building a hopeful future and the McCain ads talked about how bad Obama is. This had a very negative influence on me against McCain. I may be naive, but I believe in how these things should be done. And mud-slinging pisses me off.

Not long after that was the Obama_as_celebrity ad -- more fuel on the fire.

This caused me to take a closer look at Obama. I like the fact that he's got a poly-sci degree. I like the fact that he is promoting a positive position as opposed to fear.

I like that he intends to get us out of Iraq as soon as possible.

I like the fact that he's for greater oversight of the finance sector. I don't believe that large corporations act in the best interest of the public and that some independent oversight is needed.

I think that too many breaks have been given to the wealthy and the large corporations and I like that Obama is at least talking a good game in this area.

I'm concerned about both party's plans for health care, so I think that's a wash.

I don't think McCain is the debbil, but I think we need more of a change than his cards are showing.

I don't think Obama is a saint, but I see him as the lesser of two evils.

Holy shit, this is tw length. But you did ask.

[Shawnee123]

Ahem, dar...good post but your freudian slip is showing.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by dar512

You are correct in that at least part of my hesitation to vote for McCain comes from the fact the he's of the same party as Bush.

He uses the term maverick a lot in order to distance himself from Bush, but I haven't heard anything from him that gives me a warm fuzzy that he really is substantively different.

I have three huge issues with the current administration.
1) We have focused military attention on Iraq, which should never have been done. If we hadn't been distracted by Iraq, I bet we'd have Osama by now.
2) Attempts to grow the influence of the administrative branch of the government. See Palin's verbiage from the VP debate on the importance of the VP role.
3) The de facto reduction in the rights of citizens. I don't want the government to have the right to spy on me without severe limitations in place.

I haven't heard anything from the Rs to make me believe that these things would change under McCain. In fact I was surprised that Palin was so bold in her discussion of enlarging the role of the VP.

So I started out leaning Dem.

Then came the olympics where the Obama ads talked about building a hopeful future and the McCain ads talked about how bad Obama is. This had a very negative influence on me against McCain. I may be naive, but I believe in how these things should be done. And mud-slinging pisses me off.

Not long after that was the Obama_as_celebrity ad -- more fuel on the fire.

This caused me to take a closer look at Obama. I like the fact that he's got a poly-sci degree. I like the fact that he is promoting a positive position as opposed to fear.

I like that he intends to get us out of Iraq as soon as possible.

I like the fact that he's for greater oversight of the finance sector. I don't believe that large corporations act in the best interest of the public and that some independent oversight is needed.

I think that too many breaks have been given to the wealthy and the large corporations and I like that Obama is at least talking a good game in this area.

I'm concerned about both party's plans for health care, so I think that's a wash.

I don't think McCain is the debbil, but I think we need more of a change than his cards are showing.

I don't think Obama is a saint, but I see him as the lesser of two evils.

Holy shit, this is tw length. But you did ask.

Good post dar!

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

OMG

Classic is regurgitating the current GOP campaign strategy play-by-play.

but he's a moderate. He said so.

[Pico and ME]

Nice angle, aint it.

[Happy Monkey]

He's a maverick moderate. He goes against the moderate grain!

[BigV]

Originally Posted by classicman

I guess hanging around this guy is an example of "good judgment"

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

OMG

Classic is regurgitating the current GOP campaign strategy play-by-play.

Originally Posted by glatt

but he's a moderate. He said so.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

He's a maverick moderate. He goes against the moderate grain!

I disagree.

I think classicman is uncritically posting a lot of information he's being exposed to. He's being neutral (ish) in his receptive stance, but...

*BUT*

The content of what's coming across his field of view is strongly slanted in favor of the writer/sender/etc. LOTS of that kind of traffic these days. I get the sense that he's trying to sort truth from fiction. What I don't see is much of an internal sense of what's real and what's not. And the little I have seen does seem to have a republican tilt to it.

I can't say if this is because this is how he's wired politically or if it is just what he's relaying to teh cellar. I don't know.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

I disagree.

I think classicman is uncritically posting a lot of information he's being exposed to. He's being neutral (ish) in his receptive stance, but...

*BUT*

The content of what's coming across his field of view is strongly slanted in favor of the writer/sender/etc. LOTS of that kind of traffic these days. I get the sense that he's trying to sort truth from fiction. What I don't see is much of an internal sense of what's real and what's not. And the little I have seen does seem to have a republican tilt to it.

I can't say if this is because this is how he's wired politically or if it is just what he's relaying to teh cellar. I don't know.

You sound like my brother, who is 60, you are making excuses for the other camp as to why they disagree with you and why the other guy is wrong and you are right. Poppycock.