McCain's Last Ditch Effort

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That doesn't bother me that much. The cops were obviously on to them and given the amount of protection that our President receives I doubt they would have gotten even close.

On the otherhand hanging an effigy from a house or a tree is a legal hate crime that incites other to do stupid things, like burn down someones house or perform a violent act on an unsuspecting person. It is more about the double standard I see here and else where, like it is only some kind of prank for the holiday. Well that is until they hang an Obama one from the tree. Then people will be all outraged. I would not support that act and I do not support the one of Palin.

Ithink I probably have a slightly different oreintation to effigies than you do. They traditionally play quite a large role in protest here, and our most treasured national tradition involves burning one. When my eldest niece finished primary school, she and her friends and my bro's family had a big celebratory bonfire in their back garden, at which the kids burned an effigy of their most hated teacher, stuffed full with old school notes.

Around Guy Fawkes Night, kids take 'Guys' that they've made, around in a wheelbarrow and ask people for "a penny for the Guy" to gather money for fireworks and sweets. Though it's traditionally meant to be Guy Fawkes, there is also a sub tradition of making the Guy look like an unpopular figure of the day.

I still think there is a vast difference between hanging up a Halloween dummy to look like a politician of the day, and hanging up an effigy of the first black cntender for president. Your country has a recent history of lynching black people: the Palin effigy cannot hold the same cultural resonance (and therefore importance) as hanging the effigy of a black man.


[eta] not that I approve of the Palin dummy. I think it's in poor taste.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Burning an effigy, in an active protest, carries a different connotation than leaving an effigy, hung by anonymous person(s).

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Ithink I probably have a slightly different oreintation to effigies than you do. They traditionally play quite a large role in protest here, and our most treasured national tradition involves burning one. When my eldest niece finished primary school, she and her friends and my bro's family had a big celebratory bonfire in their back garden, at which the kids burned an effigy of their most hated teacher, stuffed full with old school notes.

Around Guy Fawkes Night, kids take 'Guys' that they've made, around in a wheelbarrow and ask people for "a penny for the Guy" to gather money for fireworks and sweets. Though it's traditionally meant to be Guy Fawkes, there is also a sub tradition of making the Guy look like an unpopular figure of the day.

I completely respect that and think the whole Guy Fawkes thing is pretty cool. We left the UK a week before the celebration the last time we were there and were disapointed that we could not stay on.

I still think there is a vast difference between hanging up a Halloween dummy to look like a politician of the day, and hanging up an effigy of the first black cntender for president. Your country has a recent history of lynching black people: the Palin effigy cannot hold the same cultural resonance (and therefore importance) as hanging the effigy of a black man.

Completely true. The point is that there is becoming this blatant duplicity and double standard surrounding protest, visual, or virtual (internet) that is accepted by one group, but if displayed by another the race card is played. That is a problem and will remain a problem for many. I completely and whole heartedly support equality among races and ethnic groups, regardless of who you are and were you came from. I do not support reversal of roles, duplicity, double standards, or assumption of roles of submissiveness in exchange for roles of dominance because of some historical wrong from generations past. I carry no guilt because of some BS that happened over 100 years ago. Never will. As a person of Scottish/Irish decent I could conjure up many historical wrong doings and oppressive acts. That is not something to carry from generation to generation, nor is it something to ingrain into the consciousness of my children or children's children only to keep open old wounds and festering hate. Equality? I am all for it. Something else? No. I have no problem what so ever with a black or half white president.

[Aliantha]

I said over a year ago that I believe Obama will be assassinated. He hasn't even been elected yet and so far two plots have been foiled.

How long do you really think it's going to be before someone gets close enough to get a shot off?

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I said over a year ago that I believe Obama will be assassinated. He hasn't even been elected yet and so far two plots have been foiled.

How long do you really think it's going to be before someone gets close enough to get a shot off?

This is exactly my fear. Its the reason why effigies of prominent political figures being hung, etc. are so troubling here in the States. We have a very nasty history of presidents and other prominent people being assasinated. We have no Guy Fawkes celebration, but we do have Martin Luther King Day and the Lincoln Memorial. Go figure.

[classicman]

When she did, police say she admitted that she made the whole thing up and that it snowballed out of control.

She did - there was no grand conspiracy - It was a mentally ill girl all by herself starving for attention. Shall we string her up now or wait until after the trial?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by classicman

She did - there was no grand conspiracy - It was a mentally ill girl all by herself starving for attention. Shall we string her up now or wait until after the trial?

http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion...rton_20081027/

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoi...orters_inc.php

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...67382#27367382

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_137710.html

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/506

[classicman]

yeh - once the immature oneupsmanship starts.... Stupid people are everywhere. EVERYWHERE I tell ya!

[xoxoxoBruce]

I agree, hanging a mannequin dressed as Sarah Palin is uncool... very uncool.

[tw]

Right wing Israeli extremists never called for it. They all but called for the assassination of Rabin - to destroy the Oslo Accords and peace process. They got what they wanted.

Right wing extremists are doing same in America. Implied calls for the murder of Obama are being heard. Rush Limbaugh, et al does not call for it. But a message of hate is heard. Same message that McCain has been forced to confront in his own campaign stops.

Two Arrested in Alleged Barack Obama Murder Plot
Two alleged White Power believers are facing federal charges in connection with what authorities say was a plot to kill Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.
Twenty-year-old David Cowart of Bells, Tennessee, and 18-year-old Paul Schlesselman of West Helena, Arkansas, have been accused of making threats against a major presidential candidate and various weapons violations.

Federal agents believe this is a second plot recently uncovered.

[classicman]

hanging a mannequin - any mannequin is very uncool. man or beast.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by classicman

hanging a mannequin - any mannequin is very uncool. man or beast.

I wonder how donkeys feel about pinatas.

At some time in the past, I have held that burning an effigy of a famous person is a legitimate (albeit extreme) expression of political opinion. Kind of like burning a flag, a last resort way to express the most extreme anger at something. It can be legitimate, but only if it is justified by the most serious grievances. Say, as part of the overthrowing of a tyranny.

Hanging an effigy seems pretty similar, but the idea of people hanging effigies of Palin and/or Obama seems wrong to me. Partly it's the lynching thing but also I don't feel any candidate or running mate is bad enough to warrant the kind of extreme emotion that is conveyed by the gesture.

I wouldn't even hang in effigy either of the Clintons or either of the Bushes. I might splash holy water on an effigy of Rumsfield, though.



P.S. Girl with the "B" .... back to front ... duhhhhh

[Scriveyn]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

... I might splash holy water on an effigy of Rumsfield, though.

... like one would with a vampire?

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by classicman

hanging a mannequin - any mannequin is very uncool. man or beast.

Even Keith Olbermann lashed out at this guy on his show last night.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by classicman

hanging a mannequin - any mannequin is very uncool. man or beast.

What about the mannequins that are hung up just in the spirit of bein spooky for Halloween? That's the main part about Halloween isn't it? Dead hung people look creeeepy! Especially to me, after that year one jumped down and chased me.