Any comments about Mr Madoff?

[tw]

Dave's not here.

[glatt]

tw is Cheech?

[lumberjim]

YOU MEAN I'VE BEEN DUMPED?!

[HungLikeJesus]

foot's given you the boot. (Did you see his sole?)

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

foot's given you the boot. (Did you see his sole?)

Just don't spit on my sole...

[lookout123]

No. I don't approve the use of Ouija.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by limey

and his Ponzi scheme?

Enough details of the fallout were emerging yesterday to begin to judge the mayhem this one-time chairman of Nasdaq, and Democratic Party and Jewish charity benefactor, has wreaked. Those likely to have lost everything include a Jewish charity that had its $7m assets lodged with Mr Madoff's firm, and had to lay off its staff on Friday, and Manhattan and Florida socialites.

He was a rather large contributor to some prominent D's - This info didn't come out till over the weekend. Then again this is probably fodder for another thread.

Link to recipients

I feel bad that I somehow find it more difficult to feel bad for the mainly ultra rich who lost boatloads of money in this. Although I hate how it is affecting "regular" people who also invested into some of the same things he had some money in and still more who are losing their jobs.

[ZenGum]

Elspode, I think you're a litttle harsh on humanity. There are quite a lot of people who are NOT like that. True, there are quite a few who are (which, incidentally is why I disagree with Radarian Libertarianism) but don't lose hope.

I read they let Madoff out on bail. Is that right? The only reason he should be out is so he can go take a long walk of a small ledge on a tall building. Jump, #$%@er!

[Elspode]

It takes a lot of people who don't suck to make up for the relatively few who suck so incredibly heinously.

[ZenGum]

Absolutely. In an altruistic community, it only takes a few parasites to wreck it, just a couple of percent. Pricks. Gotta weed them out.

[classicman]

Take a read here
JPMorgan Exited Madoff-Linked Funds Last Fall

Have at 'em folks.

[Beestie]

There is a belief that hedge fund investors are smarter than the average bear/wealthy enough to not be adversely affected by risk so they are not tightly regulated from the "protect the investor" vantage point. Most hedge funds have pretty hefty initial investment thresholds designed to filter out those not well-off enough to be able to absorb the risk.

In reality, most Ponzi schemes are pretty easy to spot given enough information. And there was enough information available to have led several prominent analysts to publicly question the accuracy of the fund's financial reports.

Hedge funds are risky in an all-or-nothing way. Many times its either a home run or a strikeout.

Hedge funds shouldn't be used as primary investment vehicles anyway. Their primary purpose is to hedge against risks that cannot be offset by diversification such as exchange-rate risk.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Hedge funds shouldn't be used as primary investment vehicles anyway. Their primary purpose is to hedge against risks that cannot be offset by diversification such as exchange-rate risk.

Are you investing to solve a problem in the economy or provide a company with a solution? If investing to advance mankind and society, then a profit is earned. If simply investing to make a fast profit, then the resulting losses were deserved. Others argue silly nonsense such as greed. A responsible investor instead sees real assets, services, or products.

Hedge funds that should be profitable invested in risk directly attached to existing real assets. Such funds also would be transparent to investors.

Part of Madoff's trick was to deny direct investment. Investments were made through feeder funds. The investor then (foolishly) thought that broker was a financial guru. In reality, that feeder fund was nothing more than a salesman whose profits were larger when recommending Madoff. They never bothered to learn what Madoff was doing. Why would they? So many actually believe brokers are more than a salesman. Why bother to actually do the work when how the sale is made is more important?

Do you invest in a feeder fund who in turn invests in Madoff who in turn invests in equities too far removed from actual assets? No wonder the ponzi scheme lived on so long. Victims were too busy realizing 'profits' rather than first looking at what the fund was actually investing to advance mankind, the economy, and society.

Buy shares of Intel and actually see your investment is doing something productive and therefore profitable. Invest in an agricultural future so that the farmer can hedge himself (survive) from catastrophic risks. Do investing in regulated markets that are forced to operate ethically. The meltdown is directly traceable investments promoted only by myths; assets based only in paper and sometimes even in secret, private deals.

Madoff simply used additional 'layers' to play that game. To take investments from those too far removed to actually see what they were investing in.

Read the JP Morgan article. How do you know a problem exists? One gives bank money to invest. The bank takes a 2% service fee. Then the bank invests in another fund which also takes a service fee. That is an investor all but asking for trouble. A broker (or bank) should be the only service fee. The bank even quickly pulled out their own money but never bothered to inform investors who were even paying a 2% service fee.

Such investors are all but asking to be taken - just like investors in Bernie Madoff who could only invest through feeder funds. Just like anyone who pays a financial adviser a service fee to invest in mutual funds which then take more service fees.

[classicman]

Madoff list: Celebs, athletes and ordinary people

NEW YORK (AP) -- The scope of Bernard Madoff's alleged fraud is detailed in 162 pages of minuscule type -- a list of the disgraced money manager's once-trusting customers, including a bevy of the rich, famous and powerful.

In between, though, are all the others -- the names you've never heard. A retired teacher from the San Francisco Bay area. An emergency room doctor in Oregon. A carpenter from upstate New York. Thousands of mostly ordinary people, until now all but overlooked. Their voices reveal the true toll of Madoff's scheme, one that cannot be measured in dollars alone.

To do so, would overlook the anger, despair and silent shame they share.

"My wife says, 'keep yourself busy and get your mind off it,'" said Alan English, a Florida business owner whose life savings were lost to Madoff. "But how can I take my mind off something that has destroyed my whole life?"

English is one of thousands of Madoff customers whose names were made public late Wednesday in a filing with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan, and serves as testament to the sweeping nature of Madoff's alleged $50 billion fraud.

The list includes scores of famous names, from Hall of Fame pitcher Sandy Koufax, to World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein to actor John Malkovich and CNN host Larry King.

But on a list with 13,000 entries, they are the exceptions. Run a finger down the list and what's most noteworthy is that so many of the names are people who might be just another neighbor or co-worker or friend.

They are people like Dr. Bonnie Sidoff, 56, an emergency room physician in West Linn, Ore. Years ago, her mother told her if she ever wanted to invest some money, she couldn't do much better than Bernie Madoff. Evelyn Rosen had never met Madoff personally, but in her circle of Florida country club friends, having money with the New Yorker was "considered an honor," Sidoff said Thursday.

So when Rosen died in April 2006 at the age of 80, her daughter left the $100,000 or so in her account with Madoff. Not only that, she took the money her mother left her in other accounts and invested that with Madoff.

In December, the day before the Madoff scandal broke, Sidoff and her husband Mike, both emergency room doctors, wired another $150,000 for Madoff to invest. The day after they learned the devastating news, the couple received a letter confirming the deposit.

"That was pretty heartbreaking," Sidoff said.

An analysis of the list shows that the people come from 44 states and at least 40 countries, from the Cayman Islands to Kenya to Switzerland. Florida has nearly 2,200 entries.

[Elspode]

I still say the dude should slit his own throat. He's scum.