The Bible Is Bullshit

[wolf]

If you think it's bullshit, then don't read it.

I choose not to read romance novels for the same reason.

But I don't take the position that other people shouldn't, nor do I demand that they agree with me.

[busterb]

Be nice if ya could get out of the frikin links and have a look at others.

[monster]

ooh, look!

[Ruminator]

You can tell by the sparkle in their eyes that they sense they owe their existence to a creator. [Rumi said with a twinkle in his own eye] ...

[Yznhymr]

Radar is so full of shit squirrels from neighboring cities drop out of trees when he passes gas. Give me a break. I'm so tired of the Bible bashing and the gay bashing and the _____ bashing. Why bash? Just be cool and not sweat the small stuff. If you are so hurt you can't go without attacking a group you disagree with, go see a good head shrink and get some meds. You really need it.

[DanaC]

Maybe he got tired of hearing how atheists have no moral values, or just that their values are in fact from God without them realising. Granted it was a provocative title...but then Radar is a provocateur, it's part of what he does. Good stuff. Personally, I liked this thread. The title made me laugh.

[Griff]

I didn't know the Morman thing before, it kinda puts the whole Radar persona in context.

[Yznhymr]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Maybe he got tired of hearing how atheists have no moral values, or just that their values are in fact from God without them realising. Granted it was a provocative title...but then Radar is a provocateur, it's part of what he does. Good stuff. Personally, I liked this thread. The title made me laugh.

My "____ bashing" now includes athiest bashing. Good point.

[DanaC]

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say there's been atheist bashing ... here anyway... out in the world, though? Now that may be a different story. I don't know how it works for dwellars, but I have a couple of friends stateside who are extremely unwilling to let on to work colleagues that they are atheists, in case they draw negative attention, or damage their promotion prospects.

Now, I'm only talking a couple of people out of a fairly large group of American internet friends, but I found it interesting. If, as that seems to suggest, there is some kind of stigma attached to atheism, then that might explain the militant and slightly belligerent tone with which some vocal atheists approach the topic.

One of the things I particularly like about the Cellar is it doesn't end up in a bi-monthly, blood on the carpet, catfight between deists, theists and atheists; something which tends to happen in the other forums I frequent. That doesn't mean it won't get ...robust, from time to time. Whilst the thread titles about atheism and moral values etc weren't nasty the basic start point that atheism and moral values are somehow in opposition to each other, could be offensive to some.

*Shrugs* we all flip out at different stuff, and this is one of Radar's biggies. I used to be a little like that about religion, and my culture isn't half as suspicious of atheism as the one Radar is responding to.

[Yznhymr]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say there's been atheist bashing ... here anyway... out in the world, though? Now that may be a different story. I don't know how it works for dwellars, but I have a couple of friends stateside who are extremely unwilling to let on to work colleagues that they are atheists, in case they draw negative attention, or damage their promotion prospects.

Now, I'm only talking a couple of people out of a fairly large group of American internet friends, but I found it interesting. If, as that seems to suggest, there is some kind of stigma attached to atheism, then that might explain the militant and slightly belligerent tone with which some vocal atheists approach the topic.

One of the things I particularly like about the Cellar is it doesn't end up in a bi-monthly, blood on the carpet, catfight between deists, theists and atheists; something which tends to happen in the other forums I frequent. That doesn't mean it won't get ...robust, from time to time. Whilst the thread titles about atheism and moral values etc weren't nasty the basic start point that atheism and moral values are somehow in opposition to each other, could be offensive to some.

*Shrugs* we all flip out at different stuff, and this is one of Radar's biggies. I used to be a little like that about religion, and my culture isn't half as suspicious of atheism as the one Radar is responding to.

Outside of the Cellar, I have great converstions with Athiests/Agnostics. Here in the Cellar they seem more charged up and ready for a fight. Not sure why they are so defensive other than they are tired of hearing the majority of America that chooses a viewpoint in opposition of theirs. Sucks to be a minority. I am one at work and in my neighborhood. Anyone want to do a virtal fist bump on that one???

[Phage0070]

Originally Posted by Yznhymr

Outside of the Cellar, I have great converstions with Athiests/Agnostics. Here in the Cellar they seem more charged up and ready for a fight. Not sure why they are so defensive other than they are tired of hearing the majority of America that chooses a viewpoint in opposition of theirs. ...

I would suspect that people are more willing to argue a point such as religion on the internet because they are not worried about reprisal. In the USA it probably will not be physical of course, but there is certainly the danger of religious people not wanting to associate with an atheist or agnostic. I would suspect that some of your conversations were great simply because they figured that they were not going to convince you and they would prefer to part amiably.

There is certainly a lot to be said about being polite, but something about the "Oh, that's nice... (back away slowly)" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. In practice though I would probably not risk starting a controversial discussion with my neighbors.

[Ruminator]

This aspect of one's religious beliefs causing myself to be ganged up on I've not really experienced until I came here.
I didn't realize from the short time I read posts before registering here that there were raw feelings and thought I'd found a cool place to be able to become friends with people I could have calm, friendly discussions with and compare our knowledge, thoughts, and beliefs as friends.

It does appear to be possible with a few, but then getting ridiculed by a others and having my intentions and statements misunderstood by others makes it hard to want to try to engage further. The internet form of communication is fraught with this.
I have really appreciated the great responses, and learned a few new things from our exchanges otherwise.

[monster]

it's not just that we're in a minority, but it's like being black 50 years ago ...it's ok and even encouraged to discrimanate against us, even if the law says it's not ok. FFS people want the 10 comandments in the law courts!

Whenever anyone is killed, the news report always has soundbite about how the deceased went to church regulary and was "god-fearing". WTF? You don't hear people saying "she was a lovely person, as white as they come...'

[DanaC]

Don't be too put out Ruminator. Most people in those discussions met you with respect and and differing sets of views. This is a large group of people with an intimate and shifting active core. From time to time we break into groups who oppose one another on certain issues. Religion is sometimes the break point; other times it may be political or cultural. Occasionally it has even broken into groups along national lines. If you are discussing fundamentals, chances are there will be some people taking an opposing view. They then post and the thread takes on a rhythm. It's very easy from that point on, for the poster who's become the focus of that thread to feel ganged up on.

This is cool place to hang out and talk. But nor do we take prisoners in a discussion. If you bring out evidence, expect to be called on it. If you state something ephemeral and unmeasurable as unassailable fact and then take issue with others doing similarly, expect to be called on it.

Being mocked is something that'll happen. It doesn't in any way mean a lack of respect. There are people here who I think respect me but who are quite happy to tear me down in a discussion on welfare, for example. Don't worry about. This is the way the Cellar is. We are kind and warm and welcoming, but we also hunt in packs :P

As it happens, I don't think you've come in for that much stick. If anything I'd say people have been less inclined to move straight to mischief than is usual when religion is the topic. *smiles*

[Happy Monkey]

Arguing religion is better on the internet because if you get exasperated and walk away, you can come back later and continue as if nothing has happened.