Porn in the USA - Page 2

sugarpop · 04-10-2009, 12:01 PM

I have really mixed feelings about porn. On the one hand, I think people (adults) should be able to watch it if they want to. On the other hand, I think it has some really insidious effects on society, and it has creeped into the mainstream.

Erotica and porn, not even close to the same thing.

Apollo · 04-10-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I have really mixed feelings about porn. On the one hand, I think people (adults) should be able to watch it if they want to. On the other hand, I think it has some really insidious effects on society, and it has creeped into the mainstream.

What kind of effects?

Urbane Guerrilla · 04-10-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I have really mixed feelings . . . Erotica and porn, not even close to the same thing.

Though you run into the Potter Stewart problem in trying to draw the line between them.

sugarpop · 04-12-2009, 09:46 PM

UG I am not familiar with that problem. Could you please elaborate?

sugarpop · 04-10-2009, 05:52 PM

People get addicted to it, and it ruins relationships. Just like being an alcoholic or a gambler or a drug addict.

Teenagers (and younger even) watch it and learn things they shouldn't know at those ages, and then do them. I watched a documentary back in early 2000 about this group of kids in the Atlanta area, they were all watching porn, and then sleeping with each other and experimenting with what they had watched, passing around gonorrhea and other stds. Kids today are so stupid, they say they want to stay virgins, so they have anal sex instead, or give blow jobs.

Most porn objectifies women in ways that are not good. Yes, there are some women in porn who are actually empowered by doing it and make good money, but that is far from the norm. Most of the women have been sexually abused in the past, and they are abused in the industry. Most of them are drug addicts. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. One of my very good friends in California, his father and brother were both producers of porn films. I know all kinds of inside information.

Urbane Guerrilla · 04-12-2009, 11:23 PM

Google wasn't your friend today, sugarpop? It's a very present help in obscurity. A search on "Justice Potter Stewart" yields among others:

What Wiki had

And here

1.31 million hits to choose from.

sugarpop · 04-13-2009, 10:20 AM

Ahhh, yes, I get the point. Slippery slope. But everything I said is valid, and I stand by it. I did say I thought it should be legal and available for adults. I also said there are problems created by it. We cannot legislate certain things, nor should we try, but we also should not bury our head in the sand about the problems that are caused by porn. And they are many. Instead, we should try to be honest about the situation, and look for solutions without demonizing the people who are involved.

Urbane Guerrilla · 04-13-2009, 09:43 PM

Not, I think, a slippery-slope problem so much as there's nowhere in law you can sensibly draw the line, so there I see eye to eye with you. You either absolutely prohibit all traffic in nude images however asexual, or there's really no way you can make an intelligent, respectable law allowing some, but not some other. Potter Stewart didn't think this far, but his remark amounted to a confession that the law couldn't do a good job of regulating sexual artistic expression -- any better than it could regulate any other kind of artistic expression. This was one of those things that made the Sixties necessary, in spite of the boxcarload of rampant idiocies that arrived at the station with them.

Pornographically, you're left with the market doing the regulating. Everyone has a pretty clear idea of what would be beyond the pale -- at the very least you'd select by probability of informed and legally competent consent -- so this is not the surrender it might seem.

Elspode · 04-13-2009, 09:53 PM

Addictive personalities are going to find something to addict them. It might be drugs or booze or porn, or it might be work or dieting or giving their testimony to people on Saturday mornings (probably the most dangerous of all possible addictions, at least, it is if you're knocking on my door on Saturday morning).

You can't ban life, and there are any number of things in life to which addictive people can become addicted.

richlevy · 04-13-2009, 10:27 PM

BTW, Pirates I & II do have some very nice CGI work in them. The blondes look almost real.

Pie · 04-13-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

Addictive personalities are going to find something to addict them. It might be drugs or booze or porn, or it might be work or dieting or giving their testimony to people on Saturday mornings (probably the most dangerous of all possible addictions, at least, it is if you're knocking on my door on Saturday morning).

You can't ban life, and there are any number of things in life to which addictive people can become addicted.

This.

We can't bubble-wrap the world and make it safe for anyone with a problem distinguishing reality from fantasy.

BrianR · 04-14-2009, 12:07 PM

Sugarpop, I'm calling your bluff.

I've been in the porn industry on both sides of the camera and I reject your assertion that "most" of the models were sexually or otherwise abused or they are drug addicts.

Sure, drugs are very available for those who need the extra boost to perform and yes, some go too far and lose their souls but in my experience, MOST are not users and I've only met ONE abuse survivor and SHE only did porn to reclaim her self-esteem and reempower herself.

sugarpop · 04-14-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianR

Sugarpop, I'm calling your bluff.

I've been in the porn industry on both sides of the camera and I reject your assertion that "most" of the models were sexually or otherwise abused or they are drug addicts.

Sure, drugs are very available for those who need the extra boost to perform and yes, some go too far and lose their souls but in my experience, MOST are not users and I've only met ONE abuse survivor and SHE only did porn to reclaim her self-esteem and reempower herself.

I am only going by what I was told and what I saw. I also worked for an internet company that did a porn site. I met some of those girls, and they were pretty fucked up emotionally. Most of the people I have met who were either in porn or worked as strippers were pretty messed up. (I knew girls in LA and also when I lived in Hawaii.) They ALL did drugs. In addition, many of them were abused by the industry. Unless you reach a certain level, you don't make much money. I know there are some responsible porn companies out there, but there are also some really unresponsible ones as well.

Undertoad · 04-14-2009, 05:48 PM

People don't admit to abuse. A great many of them don't even realize they were being abused; for them, it was their childhood and nobody told them it wasn't a normal childhood.

For a porn star it would be a career-ender to admit to being abused. A lot of guys would not consider a porn star fap material if they knew she was abused. Guys want to think of them as naturally dirty somehow, not turned dirty because her step-father would get drunk and make her give him a handy when she was 8.

BrianR · 04-14-2009, 07:16 PM

Sugarpop, you must have met models from some minor player that takes the dregs of aspirants.

The responsible studios do not use druggies or mentally unstable models, they are bad for business. Guys fap to the scene, not the state of the actors. At least, I do. Dunno about others.

04-12-2009, 11:23 PM	#6
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Google wasn't your friend today, sugarpop? It's a very present help in obscurity. A search on "Justice Potter Stewart" yields among others: What Wiki had And here 1.31 million hits to choose from. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

04-13-2009, 09:43 PM	#8
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Not, I think, a slippery-slope problem so much as there's nowhere in law you can sensibly draw the line, so there I see eye to eye with you. You either absolutely prohibit all traffic in nude images however asexual, or there's really no way you can make an intelligent, respectable law allowing some, but not some other. Potter Stewart didn't think this far, but his remark amounted to a confession that the law couldn't do a good job of regulating sexual artistic expression -- any better than it could regulate any other kind of artistic expression. This was one of those things that made the Sixties necessary, in spite of the boxcarload of rampant idiocies that arrived at the station with them. Pornographically, you're left with the market doing the regulating. Everyone has a pretty clear idea of what would be beyond the pale -- at the very least you'd select by probability of informed and legally competent consent -- so this is not the surrender it might seem. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

04-13-2009, 09:53 PM	#9
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Addictive personalities are going to find something to addict them. It might be drugs or booze or porn, or it might be work or dieting or giving their testimony to people on Saturday mornings (probably the most dangerous of all possible addictions, at least, it is if you're knocking on my door on Saturday morning). You can't ban life, and there are any number of things in life to which addictive people can become addicted. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

04-13-2009, 10:27 PM	#10
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	BTW, Pirates I & II do have some very nice CGI work in them. The blondes look almost real. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

04-14-2009, 12:07 PM	#12
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	Sugarpop, I'm calling your bluff. I've been in the porn industry on both sides of the camera and I reject your assertion that "most" of the models were sexually or otherwise abused or they are drug addicts. Sure, drugs are very available for those who need the extra boost to perform and yes, some go too far and lose their souls but in my experience, MOST are not users and I've only met ONE abuse survivor and SHE only did porn to reclaim her self-esteem and reempower herself. __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

04-10-2009, 12:01 PM	#1
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	I have really mixed feelings about porn. On the one hand, I think people (adults) should be able to watch it if they want to. On the other hand, I think it has some really insidious effects on society, and it has creeped into the mainstream. Erotica and porn, not even close to the same thing.

04-12-2009, 09:46 PM	#4
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	UG I am not familiar with that problem. Could you please elaborate?

04-10-2009, 05:52 PM	#5
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	People get addicted to it, and it ruins relationships. Just like being an alcoholic or a gambler or a drug addict. Teenagers (and younger even) watch it and learn things they shouldn't know at those ages, and then do them. I watched a documentary back in early 2000 about this group of kids in the Atlanta area, they were all watching porn, and then sleeping with each other and experimenting with what they had watched, passing around gonorrhea and other stds. Kids today are so stupid, they say they want to stay virgins, so they have anal sex instead, or give blow jobs. Most porn objectifies women in ways that are not good. Yes, there are some women in porn who are actually empowered by doing it and make good money, but that is far from the norm. Most of the women have been sexually abused in the past, and they are abused in the industry. Most of them are drug addicts. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. One of my very good friends in California, his father and brother were both producers of porn films. I know all kinds of inside information.

04-13-2009, 10:20 AM	#7
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	Ahhh, yes, I get the point. Slippery slope. But everything I said is valid, and I stand by it. I did say I thought it should be legal and available for adults. I also said there are problems created by it. We cannot legislate certain things, nor should we try, but we also should not bury our head in the sand about the problems that are caused by porn. And they are many. Instead, we should try to be honest about the situation, and look for solutions without demonizing the people who are involved.

04-14-2009, 05:48 PM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	People don't admit to abuse. A great many of them don't even realize they were being abused; for them, it was their childhood and nobody told them it wasn't a normal childhood. For a porn star it would be a career-ender to admit to being abused. A lot of guys would not consider a porn star fap material if they knew she was abused. Guys want to think of them as naturally dirty somehow, not turned dirty because her step-father would get drunk and make her give him a handy when she was 8.

04-14-2009, 07:16 PM	#15
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	Sugarpop, you must have met models from some minor player that takes the dregs of aspirants. The responsible studios do not use druggies or mentally unstable models, they are bad for business. Guys fap to the scene, not the state of the actors. At least, I do. Dunno about others. __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

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