tw & me

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Well, gee, you know, Jews don't eat spam or pork either, but they refused assistance from them, didn't they?

Not completely true.

[wolf]

*sigh*

thanks, buster, for giving him a fifth thread.

Just for tidiness sake, tw, could you go back to the best and worst of 2004 that you thread pirated on this topic, just to keep it all in one place?

[Undertoad]

The C-130s are exactly what's required. When what you have is a disaster area hundreds of thousands of miles long, but one block deep, the critical thing is not a lack of supplies, but getting them to the place they're needed.

It turns out the C-130s can not only take things to the location but take off with new supplies for another location. A water purification system that stays in one location - great for that one location, too bad for every other location... unless you have helos and C130s to move that water around.

Now remind us, how did the critical C-130s take off without that executive decision that was supposedly required on day five?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The C-130s are exactly what's required. When what you have is a disaster area hundreds of thousands of miles long, but one block deep, the critical thing is not a lack of supplies, but getting them to the place they're needed.

Six C-130s did all that? Guess again. Needed on the first days are hundreds of small C-130s. And who has them (including the ones that don't work because they were built as pork for Trent Lott)? The one organization that was not permitted to respond for five days. The US government waited for George Jr to respond.

But C-130s are not what is really needed. Needed are bigger planes that fly faster, need not land, and deliver more supplies.

Furthermore, the disaster is so extensive that even helicopters find it difficult to land. What is a paltry 6 C-130s suppose to do? What are P-3 Orions (I believe he sent nine) going to do? Show me supplies being delivered by P-3 Orions. Its called waving the flag. Pretend help has arrived. In the meantime even India - a victim - was also providing more aid to those adjacent nations. Why? They did not have a mental midget president who thought six C-130s were big planes. Instead India was sending serious aid.

Real aid does not start until the C-17s and C-5A start landing. Its been one week. Where are they? Oh. The president had to make a decision.

[wolf]

"Small" C-130s? Aren't they all the same size??

[tw]

Originally Posted by wolf

"Small" C-130s? Aren't they all the same size??

C-130s are medium transport planes. They should have been out of production long ago because the C-130 - as military transport - was not a small plane. C-17s do what the C-130 did - but better. Any money wasted on C-130Js means less of the larger, faster, more efficient C-17s. Ironic, those latest built C-130s (done only for Senator pork reasons) still are not operational. Once the C-130 was a big transport. No longer. C-130s are small transport planes - as the DC-10 once was a big cargo plane.

[lumberjim]

visual aid:

[OnyxCougar]

Hey Tee? How many relief operations have you co-ordinated? Were you on site where the relief was needed or were you in the command center co-ordinating drops?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Notice who (unfortunately) designed and built the C-17 - which is why the plane so desperately needed took so long to get deployed.

MacDonald Douglas. They went close to bankrupt thanks to CEO Harry Stoneciphers propensity for sucking up to the Pentagon and ignoring their commercial business.
Boeing bought them to head off a European bid to grab one of our biggest defense contractors. Now Harry runs Boeing.
The C-17 is one of the most sophisticated aircraft ever built, including the fighters and spy planes.

Or why did that map forget to discuss the C-130J?

The map show OPERATIONAL C-130s.
The 50 C-130j's, built by Lockheed Martin, are assigned to 2 Air Squadrons which have been nonoperational for 4 years and 3 Guard and Reserve Units.
LM got in over their head on the J's and the military mistakenly tried to go along until LM could get it right rather than bankrupting them.
They had about 850 non-spec problems with about 160 of them category 1 which is life threatening.

I think the best bet for delivering supplies and extracacting people in the Chinook Helicopter. Remember the picture of one with it's rear ramp down on an Afghani rooftop? Unfortunately they are tied up in a couple of wars.

[Griff]

Hmmm... Didn't I put up a perfectly good GW lockbox thread...?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

Hmmm... Didn't I put up a perfectly good GW lockbox thread...?

Which is all about the lies and deceit of a mental midget president. Even mythical is an idea that we can invest social security money - because the money was taken to pay for an illegal 'liberation' in Iraq. Investing your social security money in stock markets assumes the voter also believes the bible to be fact. A stock broker such as Lookout123 would love such myths. Says much about his real religion.

To demonstrate a problem with reality was a need 'on day one' to be dropping a pallet of essential food, water, First Aid medical supplies and blankets onto open and devestated fields that were once villages. Lookout123 distorts facts to deny this. After all, that meant a lying president had to admit that day that a disaster occurred. So many are so easily deceived as to even take biblical scriptures literally. They even defend the mental midget for doing nothing as people sat dying.

have you ever seen a parachute drop of mass supplies? again very useful, but these aren't guided munitions - you have to drop them away from populated areas

He assumes that open fields that were once villages are still chock full of people. He assumes the people will be so stupid as to stand only in the one spot that pallet will land. He assumes the people will still be alive seven days later - that the first pallet was not necessary on day one. He does this because he must defend the mental midget and so called 'moral' president at all costs. Lookout123 even changes facts to claim aid could not have been dispatched for 5+ days. Therefore the president was right to take 5 days to decide a disaster had occurred. He was right to stifle thousands of Americans in the region who desperately wanted to save lives.

The president is right to claim social secuity money can be invested elsewhere? Notice George Jr is quick to leave details up to others - because he proposes but another myth.

Reality - whether it takes 5 days to decide people have died or whether the SS monies can be invested elsewhere - or even that Israeli are all good and Arabs are all evil - it still comes back to a mental midget president elected by those who would impose their religion on all others. Evangelicals such as Lookout123.

The perfect plane required in first days of the Tsunami were C17s that could have carried supplies long distance, parachuted them to starving and dying villagers, and get back for more supplies that same day. But another lie supported by evanglical extremists called 'the liberation of Iraq' make that not possible - as another has so properly noted. Iraqi comes first. A president stalled - remained indecisive - as if a Tsunami did not happen. Then offers up a paltry $15million to prove how moral he can be.

The point of the thread has not changed. It remains about the lying president and those extremists who will say anything to protect that liar. The lockbox is a myth due to the same president who undermined the Oslo Accords and almost got us into a war over a silly spy plane. Same president who denied for 5 days that people were dying. We call him 'moral'? Better to call him evangelical. Then he is not lying. He was just mistaken.

[xoxoxoBruce]

But once they got rolling, from The Diplomad

Sitting VERY late for two consecutive nights in interminable meetings with UN reps, hearing them go on about "taking the lead coordination role," pledges, and the impending arrival of this or that UN big shot or assessment/coordination team, for the millionth time I realized that if not for Australia and America almost nobody in the tsunami-affected areas would have survived more than a few days. If we had waited for the UNocrats to get their act coordinated, the already massive death toll would have become astronomical. But, fortunately, thanks to "retrograde racist war-mongers " such as John Howard and George W. Bush, as we sat in air conditioned meeting rooms with these UNocrats, young Australians and Americans were at that moment "coordinating" without the UN and saving the lives of tens-of-thousands of people.

And

we have in our possession a short situation report circulated by the Dutch at the most recent EU meeting here in this corner of the Far Abroad. This January 2 report is written by local Dutch diplomats who traveled to Aceh and saw the reality on the ground. We will cite the two principal paragraphs, and leave them unedited in their original rather charming Dutch-English.

The US military has arrived and is clearly establishing its presence everywhere in Banda Aceh. They completely have taken over the military hospital, which was a mess until yesterday but is now completely up and running. They brought big stocks of medicines, materials for the operation room, teams of doctors, water and food. Most of the patients who were lying in the hospital untreated for a week have undergone medical treatment by the US teams by this afternoon. US military have unloaded lots of heavy vehicles and organize the logistics with Indonesian military near the airport. A big camp is being set up at a major square in the town. Huge generators are ready to provide electricity. US helicopters fly to places which haven't been reached for the whole week and drop food. The impression it makes on the people is also highly positive; finally something happens in the city of Banda Aceh and finally it seems some people are in control and are doing something. No talking but action. European countries are until now invisible on the ground. IOM staff (note: this is a USAID-funded organization) is very busy briefing the incoming Americans and Australians about the situation.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I think the best bet for delivering supplies and extracacting people in the Chinook Helicopter. Remember the picture of one with it's rear ramp down on an Afghani rooftop? Unfortunately they are tied up in a couple of wars.

Where's the Osprey when you need it? It's one of my favorite aircraft designs, in addition to being one of the most disappointing. I've seen one give a demonstration at Pensacola NAS several times, it's a truly astounding piece of hardware.

A pity really, it's ideal for this situation.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The propwash would blow people off the beach.

[lookout123]

wow, that was a great post tw. thanks for succinctly answering the questions i had posed. i appreciate your restrained, unheated posting style. thank you for setting me straight. recap: lookout123 = extremist, gwb = mental midget, air drops = best course of action, iraq war = bad. got it, thanks.