School shooting du jour - Page 2

Troubleshooter · 03-22-2005, 12:44 PM

Some old school techniques should be reinstated.

Time under the stairs, sans weapons, was a good way to resolve a lot of issues. No knives, guns, cars, tazers, etc were used.

I's that last part, that unreasoning escalation that differentiates what is happening now from then.

jinx · 03-22-2005, 01:11 PM

An aquaintance was just telling me about her kindergartener getting beat up (actually hit, punched in the head) on the bus several times before they were able to have the bully's seat moved. Outrageous. Also, he has a lazy eye, and his teacher employed his classmates to tattle on him whenever he "cheated" (lifted the patch covering his good eye). Now he's the freak.
I don't think school administrators are able/willing to stop the bullying for the most part. They cultivate an adversarial relationship between themselves and parents, themselves and students, and among students.

BigV · 03-22-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

An aquaintance was just telling me about her kindergartener getting beat up (actually hit, punched in the head) on the bus several times before they were able to have the bully's seat moved. Outrageous. Also, he has a lazy eye, and his teacher employed his classmates to tattle on him whenever he "cheated" (lifted the patch covering his good eye). Now he's the freak.
I don't think school administrators are able/willing to stop the bullying for the most part. They cultivate an adversarial relationship between themselves and parents, themselves and students, and among students.

Sad story jinx. I have heard of similar stories myself. Indeed I lived through my share of being bullied.

Now that I am a parent myself, I would only offer one particle of advice, in a grammatical vein. When you say:

"I don't think school administrators are able/willing to stop the bullying for the most part. They cultivate an adversarial relationship between themselves and parents, themselves and students, and among students."

I would make one small change. I would insert the word IF between "...most part" and "They cultivate..."

Being united in our common cause, the welfare and education of the student and child, is of inestimable value, and is to be diligently sought. When I must I will be the teachers' and administrators' adversary. I have done so and will continue to do so where necessary. But much much more can be accomplished in an atmosphere of cooperation. [/voice of experience]

Trilby · 03-23-2005, 08:09 AM

Hmm. Just read where the grandfather was in bedwith his "companion" when they were shot. Grandfather is 58, "companion" is 32. Wonder if that's why Grandfather couldn't be bothered to find out what Jeffy was up to..?

russotto · 03-23-2005, 12:07 PM

So people with kids shouldn't have sex? That's one way of reducing the population, I'll grant you.

This case seems tailor-made to stymie knee-jerk reactions. The gun control crowd has to go "doh!" when they find out the guns belonged to a cop, and the "blame the parents" crowd has a bit of a problem when they find out neither parent was in any position to do anything about it.

Trilby · 03-23-2005, 01:36 PM

[quote=russotto]So people with kids shouldn't have sex? That's one way of reducing the population, I'll grant you.[quote]

dumbass. No. Obviously. People with kids should get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to their kids.

wolf · 03-23-2005, 01:17 PM

The hard core of the "gun control crowd" doesn't think that cops should have guns either.

Troubleshooter · 03-23-2005, 01:31 PM

And we see how well that works in England.

wolf · 03-23-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

And we see how well that works in England.

Particularly since they've not only disarmed the populace, as well having the courts decide that there is no right to self defense with any kind of weapon (including a sword or a cricket bat).

Australia too.

warch · 03-23-2005, 06:41 PM

The kid was sick, he lacked a net, he was living in isolation, he had access to weapons. I'm not quick to bag on the teachers 'cause they're in the firing range and most every teacher I know would tune in as close as possible and take a bullet for any kid in their care. The only thing I think that could have impacted this case positively would have been close psych treatment at a very young age. But he's moving from Mpls to living in a poor res community and easy to miss. I think its weird that he was a self described native nazi.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-24-2005, 09:40 PM

It's those damn Indian swastikas again.....led him astray.

grazzers · 03-26-2005, 03:02 PM

Excuse me for being a bit of an inexperienced debater, but here goes.

Although I know tightening gun laws will not solve the school shooting problems in America completely, it will help. Gun laws are strict here in Britian, and the last big school shooting was 9 years ago in Dunblane, and before that it was practically unheard of. There are still bullies and school nutjobs (trust me, im still in secondary school, i KNOW), some are capable of real violence, (there used to be a 16 year old in one of my classes who was sent to jail for a while for hospitalising a stranger over some petty arguement), and this is a comparatively safe, decent school. There are a lot worse schools out there in Scotland, with pupils with less hope for the future and a lot more rage.

The thing is, their means of release is a lot more restricted. People still get bullied and beaten up, which is bad, but at least no-one gets shot.

We are by no means free from problems here though. 2 days ago an 11 year old girl commited suicide, Scotlands youngest suicide to date. A couple of weeks ago a young boy was shot dead by a man shooting at firefighters with an airgun, sparking a debate on stricter airgun laws. Banning guns will not solve the problems with todays youth, but it would partially reduce some of the risks involved in being young.

lookout123 · 03-26-2005, 08:26 PM

the problem is that stricter gun laws only keep guns out of the hands of people who follow the law. criminals aren't overly concerned about the laws. and as far as the number of school shooting you have? compare the number of kids you have in each schools times the number of schools you have to similar statistics in the US... see something a little obvious here? we have a lot more kids in a lot more schools so shootings will be more frequent here. but that is irrelevant, only comparing shootings per capita would be appropriate.

tw · 03-27-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

the problem is that stricter gun laws only keep guns out of the hands of people who follow the law.

And driver's licenses only keep the good drivers off the road. Criminals don't bother with driver's licenses. They just keep driving. We should eliminate the driver's license for the exact same reason.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-27-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

And driver's licenses only keep the good drivers off the road. Criminals don't bother with driver's licenses. They just keep driving. We should eliminate the driver's license for the exact same reason.

What!?!?

Interrupt a major revenue source? Not the licenses, the ticket revenue that licenses allow them to collect.
And without licenses they'd issue National ID cards.

03-22-2005, 12:44 PM	#1
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Some old school techniques should be reinstated. Time under the stairs, sans weapons, was a good way to resolve a lot of issues. No knives, guns, cars, tazers, etc were used. I's that last part, that unreasoning escalation that differentiates what is happening now from then. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

03-22-2005, 01:11 PM	#2
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	An aquaintance was just telling me about her kindergartener getting beat up (actually hit, punched in the head) on the bus several times before they were able to have the bully's seat moved. Outrageous. Also, he has a lazy eye, and his teacher employed his classmates to tattle on him whenever he "cheated" (lifted the patch covering his good eye). Now he's the freak. I don't think school administrators are able/willing to stop the bullying for the most part. They cultivate an adversarial relationship between themselves and parents, themselves and students, and among students. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

03-23-2005, 08:09 AM	#4
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Hmm. Just read where the grandfather was in bedwith his "companion" when they were shot. Grandfather is 58, "companion" is 32. Wonder if that's why Grandfather couldn't be bothered to find out what Jeffy was up to..? __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

03-23-2005, 01:36 PM	#6
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	[quote=russotto]So people with kids shouldn't have sex? That's one way of reducing the population, I'll grant you.[quote] dumbass. No. Obviously. People with kids should get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to their kids. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

03-23-2005, 01:17 PM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	The hard core of the "gun control crowd" doesn't think that cops should have guns either. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-23-2005, 12:07 PM	#5
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	So people with kids shouldn't have sex? That's one way of reducing the population, I'll grant you. This case seems tailor-made to stymie knee-jerk reactions. The gun control crowd has to go "doh!" when they find out the guns belonged to a cop, and the "blame the parents" crowd has a bit of a problem when they find out neither parent was in any position to do anything about it.

03-23-2005, 01:31 PM	#8
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	And we see how well that works in England. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

03-23-2005, 06:41 PM	#10
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	The kid was sick, he lacked a net, he was living in isolation, he had access to weapons. I'm not quick to bag on the teachers 'cause they're in the firing range and most every teacher I know would tune in as close as possible and take a bullet for any kid in their care. The only thing I think that could have impacted this case positively would have been close psych treatment at a very young age. But he's moving from Mpls to living in a poor res community and easy to miss. I think its weird that he was a self described native nazi.

03-24-2005, 09:40 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	It's those damn Indian swastikas again.....led him astray. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-26-2005, 03:02 PM	#12
grazzers Aim for the Best Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 134	Excuse me for being a bit of an inexperienced debater, but here goes. Although I know tightening gun laws will not solve the school shooting problems in America completely, it will help. Gun laws are strict here in Britian, and the last big school shooting was 9 years ago in Dunblane, and before that it was practically unheard of. There are still bullies and school nutjobs (trust me, im still in secondary school, i KNOW), some are capable of real violence, (there used to be a 16 year old in one of my classes who was sent to jail for a while for hospitalising a stranger over some petty arguement), and this is a comparatively safe, decent school. There are a lot worse schools out there in Scotland, with pupils with less hope for the future and a lot more rage. The thing is, their means of release is a lot more restricted. People still get bullied and beaten up, which is bad, but at least no-one gets shot. We are by no means free from problems here though. 2 days ago an 11 year old girl commited suicide, Scotlands youngest suicide to date. A couple of weeks ago a young boy was shot dead by a man shooting at firefighters with an airgun, sparking a debate on stricter airgun laws. Banning guns will not solve the problems with todays youth, but it would partially reduce some of the risks involved in being young. __________________ "Only a person who risks all that he cannot keep, to gain that which he can never lose, is truly free." Anonymous Poet

03-26-2005, 08:26 PM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	the problem is that stricter gun laws only keep guns out of the hands of people who follow the law. criminals aren't overly concerned about the laws. and as far as the number of school shooting you have? compare the number of kids you have in each schools times the number of schools you have to similar statistics in the US... see something a little obvious here? we have a lot more kids in a lot more schools so shootings will be more frequent here. but that is irrelevant, only comparing shootings per capita would be appropriate. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode