"She", not "he", guys

[henry quirk]

It was worth a shot...*shrug*

[BigV]

Nice to see you again traceur. How are you? I'll go check for posts from you to find out any new news. :waves:

[henry quirk]

traceur,

My opening post for this thread refers to Ibby.

My position (opposed, it seems, by every one):
http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=817432&postcount=164

Much later in the thread: I posted a news bit about a prisoner awarded a sex change by the court.

That should clear up the confusion.

[BrianR]

V, I admit I could have phrased my response better. Pronouns give me trouble. *I* know what I mean! The problem is in my way of trying to communicate to YOU what I mean. This is why I turned down the spokestranny position that I was offered a little while ago.

Trace, welcome back!

Point of procedure? Please do not call us "trannies". We consider the term insulting and demeaning, almost on a par with ""he-she" and "shemale". *I* have a thick skin on this point but if any of my sisters are reading and lurking, they may not. The proper PC term is "transwoman", "transman" or "transperson". I am fully aware that I use the term. I personally do not see the harm in a simple word. However, I do take into account the thought and meaning attached to the word. Sometimes, I think our community is TOO sensitive on certain things and is definitely disorganized on all fronts.

Thank you!

Love

Pam

[BigV]

Thanks again Pam for the extended clarification, I appreciate it. I'm happy to let it stand at this: "my feelings, put into words, about myself". I totally respect that.

---

regarding the terminology, can you provide some more clarification for me please? I am ignorant, but I don't wish to offend, even unintentionally. My question is this. Taking you as an example, (with your thick skin and all, whew), are you a transman, or a transwoman? I am uncertain about the usage of the "_ _ _ _ _ m a n" or "_ _ _ _ _ w o m a n" in two cases. Am I to consider the current .... ???? state/appearance of the person I'm speaking to/of? or am I to consider what their genitalia indicated when they were born? Or am I to consider the gender they're striving to conform to?... augh... I think I'm over thinking it but I would like to know more. It would be nice to "get it right". Will you please help?

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by BigV

Thanks again Pam for the extended clarification, I appreciate it. I'm happy to let it stand at this: "my feelings, put into words, about myself". I totally respect that.

---

regarding the terminology, can you provide some more clarification for me please? I am ignorant, but I don't wish to offend, even unintentionally. My question is this. Taking you as an example, (with your thick skin and all, whew), are you a transman, or a transwoman? I am uncertain about the usage of the "_ _ _ _ _ m a n" or "_ _ _ _ _ w o m a n" in two cases. Am I to consider the current .... ???? state/appearance of the person I'm speaking to/of? or am I to consider what their genitalia indicated when they were born? Or am I to consider the gender they're striving to conform to?... augh... I think I'm over thinking it but I would like to know more. It would be nice to "get it right". Will you please help?

Thank you V. I will be glad to help you out regarding gender/pronouns/terminology. I am mostly speaking for myself, but what I recommend applies to pretty much all of us except the really militant ones.

Please use the gender/pronouns of the gender that we are presenting to you at the time. Even if we are not "fooling" anyone. Yes, some of us go back and forth. Those would be the ones that are not yet "out" to certain people. They may be protecting themselves, their job, or friends/family. Please respect that. If you are in doubt, please ask us in private. Most will tell you and thank you for your consideration.

The proper term (for me) is transsexual woman, or just woman/female/she/her. Never "it". In my case, you are unlikely to ever see me in male mode ever again. But there are those who are still coming out. If they have told you, but not someone else, take it as a compliment and a vote of confidence.

Transwoman is also acceptable. Once I am through the transition process (I will share this with everyone here), the proper term is female, woman, she/her etc. No trans.

Transsexuality is considered a medical condition and, in most cases, curable with medication and corrective surgery. Once "cured", the dysphoria disappears for the vast majority of us. And our outward presentation is in harmony with our internal identity.

[BigV]

That's really helpful Pam, thank you very much.

[BrianR]

Perhaps now might be a good time to address the topic of how to talk to a transsexual. I speak mostly for the MtF crowd here. But many comments apply to transmen as well. Just think of us as regular people. We are not some exotic creature in a zoo, we are not going to bite your head off or jump your bones right there.

But, while I generally welcome questions if they are asked from a genuine desire to learn and understand me, there are some that are insulting.
Ms. Calpernia Addams addresses some of these in the following video. While it is done from her unique brand of wit and is funny, there is a kernel of truth hidden inside as well. I have been asked most of these questions already and, while I handle them with good grace (usually), deep inside, this is often what I am thinking.





Now that that is out of the way, I hereby authorise everyone to ask me, as a representative of the greater transsexual community, most any question. Please be respectful and I will return the favor.

Love

Pamela

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by BrianR

...we are not going to bite your head off or jump your bones right there.

Love

Pamela

Well that's disappointing.

[BigV]

Very helpful, very entertaining. I thought about saying "hysterical"... I reconsidered. (but then I just said it, so, dumbass=me).

Seriously Pam, that was great. I think hq should consider question #7. For myself, I actually have had a version of question #9 in my head "Are you a man or a woman?", though I phrased it differently "How should I refer to you?". In fact, it's kind of what this whole thread's about.

Anyhow, I found the video useful and funny. She's got that eye roll *down*, I would not want it used against me. Thanks again.

[henry quirk]

"question #7"

I'd be glad to consider it...unfortunately the machine I'm on has no sound, so -- if the question is part of the video -- I can't access it.

Just post it and I'll consider it.

#

"we are not going to bite your head off or jump your bones right there"

Of course not...don’t think any one in this thread suggested anything like that.

#

"I hereby authorise everyone to ask me, as a representative of the greater transsexual community, most any question."

Okeedoke.

Ibby, in-forum, has mentioned his 'feminine side' and/or 'feeling female' (I paraphrase).

Is this the same for you, and -- if so -- can you describe concretely what this means?

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Ibby, in-forum, has mentioned his 'feminine side' and/or 'feeling female' (I paraphrase).

Is this the same for you, and -- if so -- can you describe concretely what this means?

That's kind of hard to answer, as I am not sure how a man feels. I know how I was told that I should feel by the men in my life and that was at odds with what I did feel.

I cannot really speak for Ibby. She will have to answer for herself. But I will venture to say that Ibby is not a transsexual. She is further to the male side of the gender spectrum than I am. She is exploring her identity and looking for her place in the world. That's fine. I know where I belong.

My feelings are those of a female, judging by what women and therapists (I've had several over the years) tell me. I do know that I do not and never have fit in with men. I just don't have a lot in common with them. Even as a child, I stayed closer to my mother than my father. I preferred being in the kitchen cooking to watching football with the men. Wine to beer. Talking to playing. In short, I displayed feminine traits from an early age.

When I discovered that clothes can change the way I feel, oh BOY! I went to town. But in private while I explored this new avenue. I quickly learned to be ashamed and to feel guilt. This is something that I continue to struggle to overcome. What I finally realized, is that women's clothing felt natural to me and men's clothing felt unnatural. This holds true today and forever.

I hope that answered your question.

Pam

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by BrianR

I cannot really speak for Ibby. She will have to answer for herself. But I will venture to say that Ibby is not a transsexual. She is further to the male side of the gender spectrum than I am. She is exploring her identity and looking for her place in the world. That's fine. I know where I belong.

I take exception to that... i sure as hell know where I belong too. I'm a bit of a tomboy, but that doesn't mean i'm not trans*.

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by Ibby

I take exception to that... i sure as hell know where I belong too. I'm a bit of a tomboy, but that doesn't mean i'm not trans*.

Transgender, yes. Andro? Probably. Transsexual? You have given me no indication that you wish to play for the other team. Please forgive me if I missed something. I do not doubt that YOU know who you are. But you have not specifically told ME that definition. Last I checked, you were exploring. That's fine. If you have arrived at a conclusion, I missed the announcement.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Pam

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Calpernia Adams

bad question number 7:

Anything about my genitals.

in the video at about 7:12.

Her reply:

Originally Posted by Calpernia Adams

Again, you perverted, disgusting freak. Don't ask me anything about my genitals, unless I offer. You wouldn't ask a co-worker, a friend, or probably even a family member probing, intimate questions about their genitals unless you had a pre-existing relationship that was kind of on that level. You know, this is often a favorite question from men, gay or straight, and usually their questions involve the words 'cut' and 'off'. My brain usually Turns Off when I hear this question, 'cause it's gross and weird and morbid.

Just because I know that most of you are dumb f***s, I'll educate you a little bit on what happens during vaginoplasty. That's known as sex change surgery to you dummies. In vaginoplasty, doctors don't cut off genitals, they refashion existing tissues and nerves, sort of going from out to in, to make a fully functioning, beautiful, sensate vulva and vagina.

So, um, that's about all you need to know, really. If you're desperate for more information, you can go to www.tsroadmap.com to get the full 411 on what goes on in our pants. And that little thing we call a life that surrounds genitals.

As a side note, womanhood is not defined by a lack of a penis. I hear a lot of dummies, college jocks, frat boys, construction worker types making jokes about oh, if someone's penis gets cut off then they're a girl. Well, Surprise! Women are more than the lack of a penis. Women have their own genitals. They're internal, true and most of you men out there have probably never seen them. Or at least not very much outside the family. But, women have their own genitalia that have nothing to do with having or not having a penis. And, to be honest, I have known a lot of transwomen, both pre op and post op, who I would definitely consider women no matter what their genital or surgical status. Basically, just stay out of their pants, unless you're dating.

So, to summarize, no, you can't see it. And, no I don't want to answer any more questions about it, at least not in the first twenty minutes of our acquaintance. Unless you buy me a steak dinner first. And no, Sizzler doesn't count.