If you outlaw guns, then only....

[Spexxvet]

Are you saying that most of the killings in Philadelphia are

Originally Posted by wolf

drug dealer shooting a rival drug dealer

?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Are you saying that most of the killings in Philadelphia are
[drug dealer shooting rival drug dealer]
?

I won't put words in wolf's mouth, but *I* think they are.

Criminals with illegal guns can't go to the range to practice, so their aim sucks (even if in the unlikely event they're not high at the time), so the collateral damage rate is very high.

I'd say the vast majority of the shootings in Philly are young males shooting at each other over drugs; either territory or money. In the case of shootings over women, it's both territory and drugs, the drug being testosterone.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Are you saying that most of the killings in Philadelphia are

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf
drug dealer shooting a rival drug dealer


?

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

[Shawnee123]

My great grandfather should have stayed in Switzerland.

[Ibby]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

I'm 100% against gun use and guns in general.

But as long as there ARE guns, everyone fit to own one should be allowed to. Either everyone or NO ONE. And I mean like, shutting down every gun plant, every bullet factory, everything, melting down ALL the guns... etc.
This, of course, will never happen. Therefore, I'm going to stay out of gun laws. I can't with a clear conscience pull for the LOOSENING of gun laws, but I can't pull for tightening them either.

All I can say is, I aint gonna get one.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

I'm 100% against gun use and guns in general.

But as long as there ARE guns, everyone fit to own one should be allowed to. Either everyone or NO ONE. And I mean like, shutting down every gun plant, every bullet factory, everything, melting down ALL the guns... etc.
This, of course, will never happen. Therefore, I'm going to stay out of gun laws. I can't with a clear conscience pull for the LOOSENING of gun laws, but I can't pull for tightening them either.

All I can say is, I aint gonna get one.

Are you in favor of enforcing the laws on the books?
A number of years ago they started a system of instant checks. When you want to buy a gun you have to fill out a form. The seller then calls the info in and they give him a yes or no, on whether you are eligible. Thousands of people who are not eligible have tried unsuccessfully, hoping it would slip through, even though just trying it is a federal crime.
Guess how many of those thousands of people have been prosecuted?





zero.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Chris Rock

I think we need some bullet control. I think every bullet should cost five thousand dollars. Five thousand dollars for a bullet. Know why? Cos if a bullet cost five thousand dollars, there'd be no more innocent by-standers. That'd be it. Some guy'd be shot you'd be all 'Damn, he must've done something, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass!' And people'd think before they shot someone 'Man I will blow your fucking head off, if I could afford it. I'm gonna get me a second job, start saving up, and you a dead man. You'd better hope I don't get no bullets on lay-away!' And even if you get shot you wouldn't need to go to the emergency room. Whoever shot you'd take their bullet back. 'I believe you got my property?'

[Spexxvet]

I disagree. There are lot's of reasons for shootings, not just the knee-jerk racist (no I di'int) conclusion that it must be crime/drugs. I heard an interesting take on the news this morning. A young black man (who would know better than a mature suburban woman) said that it was all about pride. If someone gets the better of you (nonlethally, of course), you're likely to go get your piece and show him who's a bitch. That's in his neighborhood, anyway. Could be a woman, basketball, parking spot, anything that disses someone.

[Pangloss62]

anything that disses someone.

Indeed. I think it's this notion of having felt "dissed" that fuels much of the violence, particularly within urban AA culture. And responding to being "dissed" is elevated to an extreme level. That is why I see so many young Black men here in the ATL wearing Scarface T-shirts. The Scarface character takes on hero status for the way he responded to being dissed ("Say hello to my little friend!!!" ).

Of course, having such a character as a "hero" is very disturbing. In fact, I see so many disturbing things in much of urban AA culture that it makes me feel awkwardly racist. But I can't help noticing.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I disagree. There are lot's of reasons for shootings, not just the knee-jerk racist (no I di'int) conclusion that it must be crime/drugs. I heard an interesting take on the news this morning. A young black man (who would know better than a mature suburban woman) said that it was all about pride. If someone gets the better of you (nonlethally, of course), you're likely to go get your piece and show him who's a bitch. That's in his neighborhood, anyway. Could be a woman, basketball, parking spot, anything that disses someone.

If it's about "pride," then what's different in the nature or nuture of young black men that they feel the need to kill each other over stupid crap like that?

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by wolf

If it's about "pride," then what's different in the nature or nuture of young black men that they feel the need to kill each other over stupid crap like that?

They don't have much else to be proud of (and this goes for Hispanics, White, Asians, all who get into this society). For the most part they come from a poor family with a lack of unity, schools that are underfunded with teachers who are overworked and who are not even "good" teachers because those schools cannot attract them, the unemployment rate is high, substance abuse is high...and the upper classes look down upon them and make them feel worthless. They are acting out and if they cannot make themselves respectable to the upper classes, atleast they can make their own peers respect/fear them.
That is why reform is so necessary, we need to concentrate our resources on improving schools, healthcare, employment agencies, scholorship funding, afterschool programs, immigration laws, ect ect. NOT on banning guns, stopping those awful gays from ruining heterosexual marriage, building more prisons, jailing homeless and prostitutes (what a ridiculous law!), all these things and more waste money that could go towards mending our societal problems at the root, not just pruning the leaves.

[Pangloss62]

what's different in the nature or nuture of young black men that they feel the need to kill each other over stupid crap like that?

Maybe they don't feel like they have more important stuff to kill each other over. I don't really know the answer. But it's an excellent question. I would consult a team made up of an anthropologist, psychologist, and a sociologist. Or perhaps ask the young black men themselves.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by wolf

If it's about "pride," then what's different in the nature or nuture of young black men that they feel the need to kill each other over stupid crap like that?

Why not start a new thread for that?

[tw]

Originally Posted by wolf

If it's about "pride," then what's different in the nature or nuture of young black men that they feel the need to kill each other over stupid crap like that?

Pride, need to win, gang mentality, no respect for a human life, fear of others, a mistake ... it all comes from the same mindset. Like it or not - and most apparently don't like the expression - it is called a 'big dic' mentality. A concept not just reserved for lying politicians. Common when the brain does not do the thinking. A problem not limited to one sex.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I disagree. There are lot's of reasons for shootings, not just the knee-jerk racist (no I di'int) conclusion that it must be crime/drugs. I heard an interesting take on the news this morning. A young black man (who would know better than a mature suburban woman) said that it was all about pride. If someone gets the better of you (nonlethally, of course), you're likely to go get your piece and show him who's a bitch. That's in his neighborhood, anyway. Could be a woman, basketball, parking spot, anything that disses someone.

That's why I cited "territory" and included testosterone as a drug. You can dismiss me as "living in the suburbs" today, but I grew up in Northwest Philadelphia and live only a few miles from John Street's hometown of Norristown.

I would say calling crime and drugs a "knee-jerk racist conclusion" (especially considering up until that point nobody had mentioned race that I noticed) would have to be itself a "knee-jerk racist conclusion". A cultural value that endorses soothing injured self-esteem with assault with a deadly weapon isn't a racial value...is it? It's a crime.

And regardless of whether it's racial or not, I'm unwilling to be disarmed on the excuse "there's cities full of young males who are violent because they are victims of society and can't help themseves; it's easier to 'solve' these problems by disarming you than by jailing them and those who illegally sold them their weapons.".

http://www.capindex.com/images/produ...onal_tract.pdf should be interesting viewing for folks who know the Philadelphia area and have the patence to wait for the download and subsquent PDF formatting.