I'm polyamorous and into the BDSM lifestyle as a switch and bottom.

[Treasenuak]

Before I say anything else, let me first say thank you all for your concern. I appreciate that you are looking out for me, even though you don't know me from Adam outside the Cellar.

Now, I would like to address these concerns. First, Sundae Girl, because you raise some very valid points concerning my daughter being present. The drinking thing... yes. I do drink a little in the mornings if I'm not working. HOWEVER... and this is a big one... I do NOT have more than the equivalent of one beer if I am the only adult in the house with my daughter. Anything more than that happens only after she is asleep, or if Ted is present to watch her for me. The engagement to Mick... I will freely admit that was a VERY bad call on my part, and my only excuse is that it was a rebound reaction, something I KNOW better than to do. Regardless, that relationship has slowed WAY down, and honestly pretty much stopped. Next, Ted himself. Yes, he is a bit older than me. Yes, I'm living with him. No, sex did not start out casual, nor is it casual now. Do I ENJOY casual sex with older men? Yes. However, Ted and I do not have a casual relationship. I slept on the couch for a LONG time after I moved here, and I have my own cabin, my own bedroom, and my own bed, to which my daughter and I retire more frequently than I do to his bed. Finally, the BDSM lifestyle is not one that I am pursuing right now; this thread was started with the intent of information gathering and learning, nothing more. Does this help at all?

Now, Undertoad. I like you too, and I highly respect your opinion. And yes, I am in counseling already. And yes, the "dangerous sex-lovers" are into condom use. STRONGLY. Knife-play, in the hands of a trained Master, is not dangerous; the cuts inflicted are nothing more than one might receive from a paper-cut, and are treated immediately following play, with antibiotic ointments and bandages. Safe, sane, consensual is the rule with ANY BDSM play, and it is strictly adhered to, one might even say religiously adhered to. This is not me randomly walking up to someone and saying, "Slice and dice me". This is a carefully thought-out lifestyle choice for me. The "dangerous" play and pain is NOT what the lifestyle is about; that's the icing on the cake. It is the choice to submit one's will to another, to give control to someone who has EARNED it, not to any tom, dick, or harry on the streets. My Sir EARNED my respect and trust, and my submission, over a long period of time. People I have known for years vouched for him before I would even speak to him. I entered the relationship I had with my Sir very cautiously and with every intent at bolting at the first sign of threat... and it never happened. Sir never made a move until I was sure of Him and of what I wanted. So yes; from the outside this can seem like a stupid and dangerous way to live. But for me, from the inside and knowing how this decision was made and what it took to get to this point, I would not have it any other way.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Treasenuak

I do drink a little in the mornings if I'm not working. HOWEVER... and this is a big one... I do NOT have more than the equivalent of one beer if I am the only adult in the house with my daughter. Anything more than that happens only after she is asleep, or if Ted is present to watch her for me.

Trea, I'm sure it was just a wording error, but just in case... you still need a sober adult present if you drink once she's asleep. What if she wakes with a dangerously high fever requiring medication or hospitalization? Or falls out of bed and gashes her head? Or less dramatically, wakes with a bad dream and can't rouse you.

[DanaC]

Much as I share concern about some of the things Treas has posted, I think we're getting a little carried away here.

BDSM is something a lot of people are attracted to at varying levels. Some of those people have experienced abuse, some haven't. If both parties are aware and conscientious there is absolutely nothing dangerous about it. It's fantasy.

Personally, though I wouldn't necessarily pursue it, because the actual reality of submission is unappealing, at a fantasy level, dark is what turns me on. Dark and dangerous.

Unfortunately, one of the dangers of being attracted to darker characters and darker fantasies, is that you can be drawn to someone who isn't good for you.

What makes this problematic is that for many people who have those fantasies, there's an enormous amount of guilt and secrecy involved (after all, if people, even close to you, knew about that 'fucked up' desire you had, they may well reach some conclusions about you). If you add that to the fact a lot of people, especially women, find it hard to ask for/talk about their sexual desires, what you end up with is couples trying stuff out without discussing it. And that really can get dangerous.

Out in the open, with people of like mind who share complementary fantasies, that's a different matter.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Cutting is never safe... never.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Much as I share concern about some of the things Treas has posted, I think we're getting a little carried away here.

BDSM is something a lot of people are attracted to at varying levels. Some of those people have experienced abuse, some haven't. If both parties are aware and conscientious there is absolutely nothing dangerous about it. It's fantasy.

Personally, though I wouldn't necessarily pursue it, because the actual reality of submission is unappealing, at a fantasy level, dark is what turns me on. Dark and dangerous.

Unfortunately, one of the dangers of being attracted to darker characters and darker fantasies, is that you can be drawn to someone who isn't good for you.

What makes this problematic is that for many people who have those fantasies, there's an enormous amount of guilt and secrecy involved (after all, if people, even close to you, knew about that 'fucked up' desire you had, they may well reach some conclusions about you). If you add that to the fact a lot of people, especially women, find it hard to ask for/talk about their sexual desires, what you end up with is couples trying stuff out without discussing it. And that really can get dangerous.

Out in the open, with people of like mind who share complementary fantasies, that's a different matter.

Well stated.

[Sundae]

Sorry Trea. I was in a pissy mood when I wrote that post and my genuine concern for you and your daughter was written in a very harsh way.
Thanks for a polite response.

Just know that we try to look after our own here, and sometimes we get a bit too personal. Well, I mean I got a bit too personal.

But if we/ I helped you take a step back and look at things it might not be too bad after all.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Treasenuak

It is the choice to submit one's will to another, to give control to someone who has EARNED it, not to any tom, dick, or harry on the streets. My Sir EARNED my respect and trust, and my submission, over a long period of time.

Let me first say you are doing a very impressive job of taking everyone's concerns rationally and in the spirit they were intended (that is, not to offend but to help.) Have you considered how your desire for the above might be connected to the abusive husband you just left? It seems that, rather than recognizing how the traits you are attracted to inherently put you in a dangerous situation before, you are instead blaming the particular person--i.e., it's okay for someone to dominate you, just not in that way, only in this other way. Are you really sure at this point that you can tell the difference between the "good" dominators and the bad ones?

[classicman]

Do you think she can really answer that?

[Clodfobble]

If she can't, that's kind of an answer in itself, don't you think?

[Razzmatazz13]

Well yes but, when are we going to get to the real issue here? How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if in fact, a woodchuck could chuck wood?

[Big Sarge]

Well I think it is great that Treas enjoys sex with older men. I wish more women did.

[DanaC]

Clod, I think you raise a goodpoint. But...there is a vast difference between consensual dominance play and non-consensual dominance. I have experienced how badly that can go wrong when the lines are crossed.

What Trease is talking about (with her Sir, and the BDSM scene) is a very controlled form of play and fantasy. It may well be that she is attracted to particular kinds of men and that opens her up to potential dangers...I understand this, I personally am attracted to a little darkness and 'nice' doesn't tend to float my boat. There are several ways of dealing with this. One is to follow that attraction into relationships that can do you harm, another is to avoid such relationships entirely, and still another is to compartmentalise that particular aspect of your sexuality into a form of co-ordinated and controlled fantasy (not so different from playing a computer roleplay game), satisfying that particular desire.

I learned long ago that for me it's the mental space it puts me in that attracts me, not the reality of the experience. For others the reality of the experience confirms and feeds into that mental space. It hits you at more than just a sexual level, it's a full on fantasy experience, with roleplay, creativity and expression. In any roleplay, the fantasy is so much more intense and *thinks* immersive when it involves other people to bounce off (if you'll pardon the pun). It isn't a replacement for 'ordinary' sex, it's a different thing entirely, it hits in a different way and for different reasons and is performed with different goals in mind.

If you're pottering around the world playing out your fantasies without really realising that's what you're doing, that can lead you into dangerous sitatuions and draw you to genuinely dangerous people, without you realising what's going on (my experience). If you know and understand your desires and how that fantasy fits into the rest of your psyche then there is no need for it to unduly influence your choice of partner, or the rest of your sex life. Generally speaking, if someone is aware of their desires to the point that they are seeking out BDSM clubs and communities, then they are less likely to be drawn unknowing into danger.

One thing I find slightly disturbing about this discussion, and it is something that also came to my mind, is that there is an implicit assumption in much of this thread, that Trease's attraction to BDSM is the reason she was beaten and raped by her husband. We have to be very, very careful. The only person responsible for rape is the one committing it.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by DanaC

The only person responsible for rape is the one committing it.

The only one legally responsible for sure, but to suggest women are never responsible for their own safety is way off.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Clod, I think you raise a goodpoint. But...there is a vast difference between consensual dominance play and non-consensual dominance. I have experienced how badly that can go wrong when the lines are crossed.

What Trease is talking about (with her Sir, and the BDSM scene) is a very controlled form of play and fantasy. It may well be that she is attracted to particular kinds of men and that opens her up to potential dangers...I understand this, I personally am attracted to a little darkness and 'nice' doesn't tend to float my boat. There are several ways of dealing with this. One is to follow that attraction into relationships that can do you harm, another is to avoid such relationships entirely, and still another is to compartmentalise that particular aspect of your sexuality into a form of co-ordinated and controlled fantasy (not so different from playing a computer roleplay game), satisfying that particular desire.

I learned long ago that for me it's the mental space it puts me in that attracts me, not the reality of the experience. For others the reality of the experience confirms and feeds into that mental space. It hits you at more than just a sexual level, it's a full on fantasy experience, with roleplay, creativity and expression. In any roleplay, the fantasy is so much more intense and *thinks* immersive when it involves other people to bounce off (if you'll pardon the pun). It isn't a replacement for 'ordinary' sex, it's a different thing entirely, it hits in a different way and for different reasons and is performed with different goals in mind.

If you're pottering around the world playing out your fantasies without really realising that's what you're doing, that can lead you into dangerous sitatuions and draw you to genuinely dangerous people, without you realising what's going on (my experience). If you know and understand your desires and how that fantasy fits into the rest of your psyche then there is no need for it to unduly influence your choice of partner, or the rest of your sex life. Generally speaking, if someone is aware of their desires to the point that they are seeking out BDSM clubs and communities, then they are less likely to be drawn unknowing into danger.

One thing I find slightly disturbing about this discussion, and it is something that also came to my mind, is that there is an implicit assumption in much of this thread, that Trease's attraction to BDSM is the reason she was beaten and raped by her husband. We have to be very, very careful. The only person responsible for rape is the one committing it.

two times.

[Treasenuak]

Clodfobble: You do raise a good point. However, I was "into" the D/s scene long before I was married, and long before I mixed S/m into it. I KNOW what "good" domination is... and I KNOW when it crosses the line into non-consent. The minute domination or sadism crosses that line, it becomes abuse. I am aware that the path I have chosen for my life puts me at risk of running into many dangerous (or just plain stupid) people. However, I have had enough experience and enough learning to know what to look for in a Dom/me. Unfortunately, there are those people out there who are so good at deception, they fool everyone around them, until they have the person they want under their control; then the gloves come off. That's basically what happened with my husband. He came across to everyone, even his family, as a great person, a wonderful man. But then, he got hold of me, and as soon as he had my trust and a child with me, which he expected would force me to stay with him, off came the gloves, and our play crossed the line into non-consensual abuse. Does this answer your question?

SG: apology accepted. No worries. And yes, speaking to you and everyone on the board is helping me sit down and think about what I do and why I do it... why I enjoy it, what my motivation is, and so on. So thank you You are free to get as personal as you wish, honey.

Razz: A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck can chuck. It's that simple.

Big Sarge: My boyfriend says the same thing...

DanaC: thank you for hitting the nail on the head much more eloquently than I can. Me and the English, we don't get along so great...

xoB: You're right. Cutting is NEVER safe. However, when done properly, and followed up with the proper aftercare, it can be a lot less dangerous. Masters of this technique study long and hard, and practice for years on dead flesh before ever taking a blade of ANY kind to living flesh. My Sir, for instance, has not had that training, and I would not let him near me with a knife unless my life depended on it. My Sir back in New York, on the other hand, nearly a decade ago... he DID have the training. He knew what he was about. And trust me when I say it was exquisite.

With the right Sir, one whom the submissive trusts and knows and has a good relationship and rapport with, the submissive can enter a mental space called commonly "subspace". If any of you have ever tranced or been hypnotized... or been in subspace yourselves... you know something of what I'm talking about. It's peaceful... quiet... nothing exists except you and your Dom/me. The outside world ceases for you while you are in that space. All your daily worries and concerns are just... gone, for a while. It's amazing. Add to that the delightful aftercare the submissive receives after a good scene, and the delicious ache of muscles for the next day or two afterwards, and you may have the beginning of an inkling of why I identify as being part of the s/m crowd. The D/s crowd, on the other hand... I'll save that for another post, another day.