The Return of the Inflation Tax

Despite the "findings" of a handful of libertarian economists, nearly every westernized country in the world has some form of progressive taxation.

And an overwhelming majority of economists and public policy makers is those countries understand why.

Put simply, it is the best guarantee of maintaining a vibrant middle class....by enabling those whose income may not exceed (or only marginally exceed) the cost of basic necessities of life to keep a greater proportion of that income than the wealthiest with much greater disposal income.

And despite the cherry-picked quotes from Jefferson, he understand that as well and expressed it in numerous letters.

He also understand that the other safeguard for a middle class was to have a government role in ensuring through regulation that the wealthy merchant/industrial class never be allowed to control the economy at the expense of the common farmers and workers to the point that it could become as despotic as the governments controlled by the ruling classes from which those before him fled to this country.

There is a reason why there has never been a successful libertarian free-market-based, socio-economic system in the modern world. It represents the interests (primarily economic interests) of very few at the expense of the overwhelming majority of the citizenry.

Which also explains why it is a marginal voice on the US political scene.

But I wish you well in creating the Republic of Mercenaries and Urbane Guerrillas and other such "freedom" loving MUGs even further on the fringe waving their signs of ignorance and bigotry and calling for the spilling of blood to rid the nation of those nazis, socialists, and other anti-democratic demons that only exist in the deep recesses of your minds.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

But I wish you well in creating the Republic of Mercenaries and Urbane Guerrillas and other such "freedom" loving MUGs even further on the fringe waving their signs of ignorance and bigotry and calling for the spilling of blood to rid the nation of those nazis, socialists, and other anti-democratic demons that only exist in the deep recesses of your minds.

I seen none of your "signs of ignorance and bigotry and calling for the spilling of blood to rid the nation of those nazis, socialists, and other anti-democratic demons", that is right out of the Pelosi talking points and it is fear mongering against anyone who dare disagree with the demoncratic congressional majority. Let me see, Redux a nameless faceless Demoncratic Shrill vs a noted well published Economist? Hmmmm.... I think I'll stick with the scholar.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I seen none of your "signs of ignorance and bigotry and calling for the spilling of blood to rid the nation of those nazis, socialists, and other anti-democratic demons", that is right out of the Pelosi talking points and it is fear mongering against anyone who dare disagree with the demoncratic congressional majority.

I agree completely that the Tea Baggers have legitimate concerns, although I dont share those concerns.

But the reason they are not a legitimate political force is that those concerns are being drowned out by the extremists among them that will detract from more reasonable independents taking up their cause at the ballot box.

Start with the perceived leadership -- Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, etc. and the lies and the myths they perpetuate, from the "death panels" to the "Obama is not a citizen" rhetoric...all of it contribute to the ignorant signs and shouts which drive others away.

Are these really the voices you want leading the revolution?

Or perhaps you want someone like Ron Paul leading the revolution....a guy who spurred the most recent grass roots movement in 08, but could barely get 5% of the vote in Republican primaries. Run as a third party? Works for me, it will simply divide the center-right and far right even more.

And then look in the mirror and you will see how the Cellar is a microcosm of much of what detracts from the movement....with similar ignorant posts from you and UG ( Nazi cunt, childish graphics, charges of socialism behind every Democratic program, personal attacks on the character of those with whom you disagree).

Do you really think that helps attract supporters to your cause?

Let me see, Redux a nameless faceless Demoncratic Shrill vs a noted well published Economist? Hmmmm.... I think I'll stick with the scholar.

It is not about me. Your scholar is on the fringe.

In most western European countries and the United States, advocates of progressive taxation tend to be found among the majority of economists and social scientists, many of whom believe that completely proportional taxation is not a possibility. In the U.S., an overwhelming majority (81%) of economists support progressive taxation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

The libertarian policies and positions espoused by you and Ludwig Von Mises Institute have never achieved any meaningful level of popular support anytime in history and anywhere in the western world....because they represent a fringe ideology and the vast majority of the economic and public policy scholars, and more importantly, the citizenry, recognize that such policies are not in the "peoples" best interest.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I agree completely that the Tea Baggers have legitimate concerns, although I dont share those concerns.

They just disagree with Demoncrats and happen to be a larger force than your guys will recognize. The elections will speak to whether that truth bears out.

But the reason they are not a legitimate political force is that those concerns are being drowned out by the extremists among them that will detract from more reasonable independents taking up their cause at the ballot box.

Extremists like Pelosi and Reid represent the otherside of the same coin.

Start with the perceived leadership -- Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, etc. and the lies and the myths they perpetuate, from the "death panels" to the "Obama is not a citizen" rhetoric...all of it contribute to the ignorant signs and shouts which drive others away.

Your first and most common error is that you describe those individuals as "perceived leadership". Those are lables of the liberal media elite whom don't like their views and would like to take away their rights to point out views which are contrary to the mainstream Demoncratic leadership. I don't support much of what they say but there is truth in all propaganda including yours.

Are these really the voices you want leading the revolution?

They don't.

And then look in the mirror and you will see how the Cellar is a microcosm of much of what detracts from the movement....with similar ignorant posts from you and UG ( Nazi cunt, childish graphics, charges of socialism behind every Democratic program, personal attacks on the character of those with whom you disagree).

Look in the mirror yourself. Pot meet kettle. And if you look at my comments I never called her a Nazi Cunt. Those things were in separate sentances. You gave her that lable but I really can't disagree.

Do you really think that helps attract supporters to your cause?

I am not interested in "attracting supporters". This is not a recruiting forum. I am expressing my veiws and ideas I have generally supported. Well unless I have been pointed out a better alternative, so far you haven't put much up to change that in your White House talking points.

It is not about me. Your scholar is on the fringe.

So far nothing you have provided us proves anything different.

The libertarian policies and positions espoused by you and Ludwig Von Mises Institute have never achieved any meaningful level of popular support anytime in history and anywhere in the western world....because they represent a fringe ideology and the vast majority of the economic and public policy scholars, and more importantly, the citizenry, recognize that such policies are not in the "peoples" best interest.

Your opinion. Plenty of people are beginning to explore alternative to the dominance of tax and spend Demoncrats and do nothing Republickins.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

... if you look at my comments I never called her a Nazi Cunt. Those things were in separate sentences.

Right...that makes it more acceptable and less ignorant.

The fact that you still see nothing wrong with those kinds of slurs and that you alone feel the need to spew in order to make your point says it all.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Put simply, it is the best guarantee of maintaining a vibrant middle class....by enabling those whose income may not exceed (or only marginally exceed) the cost of basic necessities of life to keep a greater proportion of that income than the wealthiest with much greater disposal income.

Politicians love to state that their new programs paid for throught increased taxation are pro-consumer when in fact they are only protecting business and donors to their political party, both sides do it in every session. Progressive taxation pays rich dividends to politicians looking to increase the size of government and their own personal power. We passed the line of demarkation when less than half of the public pays for nearly every majority of the feds social programs, exception to SS. Which means that the majority of people who may beneift from any new program knows that they will not have to worry about paying for it. It reminds me of the commericals for the scooter chair, they have sold so many because one of the best selling points is that they tell you that you most likely will not even pay for it. The conceptual thinking is the same. When promised something new the majority of people could care less what it costs the nation or how effective a program may actually be in the long run. Because they will not pay for it in the end. They have no real investment in whether it works or not or fixes the problems with the system. Unless people are invested in something they take it for granted. It becomes a right.

We have invested our kids in their education by ensuring that they are invested. Each of our children are required to take a personal loan out for college each year. It is not much but if they fail to finish the loan becomes theirs, not our to pay. If they finish we will help them pay it off. They have become invested. The American people need to become invested in these programs and currently they are not. As long as they continue to get something for nothing they will neither understand or appreciate what they get and the fat cats in Washington will stroke and serve only themselves and their political donors in the name of a new social parachute paid for by a small minority.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Redux

Despite the "findings" of a handful of libertarian economists, nearly every westernized country in the world has some form of progressive taxation.

The libertarian economists figure this to be exactly what's wrong with the westernized countries too.

But I wish you well in creating the Republic of Mercenaries and Urbane Guerrillas and other such "freedom" loving MUGs even further on the fringe waving their signs of ignorance and bigotry and calling for the spilling of blood to rid the nation of those nazis, socialists, and other anti-democratic demons that only exist in the deep recesses of your minds.

And you want to think of ME as extremist? Kid, whether I want to be or not, I'm Middle America these days.

[spudcon]

I guess the cost of living going up in the real world is only an illusion. Redux says it's 0%. I guess that's why last year social security recipients go the largest percent COLA raise since the seventies.

Originally Posted by spudcon

I guess the cost of living going up in the real world is only an illusion. Redux says it's 0%. I guess that's why last year social security recipients go the largest percent COLA raise since the seventies.

Its not my data that reports the CPI increasing at about 0% for the last few years.

That would be the Bureau of Labor Statistics
http://www.bls.gov/CPI/#news

[TheMercenary]

Interviewer: Do you think there’s legitimate grassroot opposition going on here?

Pelosi: I think they’re Astroturf… You be the judge. They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCq7mv7HVM

Washington Times looks into it:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblo...ons-swastikas/

“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration.”

Hillary Clinton, 2003.

UG...what you see as a movement is more like a cacophony of noise.

There are the true libertarians, the social conservatives, the fiscal conservatives and fringe elements like the birthers and yes, the angry white racists.

It is a rudderless ship with such disparate interests, it is already floundering.

And more importantly, it has no leader which means it has no staying power because there is no one who can bring such diverse and hard core ideologues with limited commonality of interests together.

What it is most likely to accomplish is to split the right and center right....and the winner is the bigger tent Democratic party.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

There are the true libertarians, the social conservatives, the fiscal conservatives and fringe elements like the birthers and yes, the angry white racists.

It is a rudderless ship with such disparate interests, it is already floundering.

And you believe that these separate diverse groups are some how unified under one group?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

So you'll go on record as pooh-poohing it right up until the moment of your electoral comeuppance, then? Just one more reason why I'm clever enough not to be a Democrat...

Now I don't see the TEA party as lasting much beyond Obama's leaving office, true enough, but in the interval it may get California's government back on the rails as well as putting the inmates once again not in charge of the asylum inside the Beltway. The present Administration and its partisans on the Hill are doing quite a job of inoculating future generations of Americans against the blandishments of socialism. Some of us already understand the out-of-date thinking the Administration is so prone to, and the rest of us soon enough will. Seriously, can you expect anything healthy from a bunch of 1960s leftover radicals? I don't think so.

Meanwhile, we have you to demonstrate just what damage white liberal guilt and class-war mentalities can do to a man. Tatterdemalion.

My mentality is absent both of these. Therefore I have much virtue.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

So you'll go on record as pooh-poohing it right up until the moment of your electoral comeuppance, then? Just one more reason why I'm clever enough not to be a Democrat...

I guess we'll see next year. I expect the Democrats will lose 15-20 seats in the House, mostly from red districts they won in recent years, and perhaps 1-2 in the Senate. That is to be expected. Beyond that, I think you're dreaming.

It was interesting to read today that the newly formed Florida Tea Party is planning to run a candidate for the open Senate seat next year because the Republican candidate, former Governor Crist, is not conservative enough.

So now, a race that he was sure to win, puts the Democratic candidate back in play because the right, with its death wish, will split itself apart.

In races across the country, like the recent House race in New York, there will be similar litmus tests for Republican candidates. Those not conservative enough will be threatened with opposition from the extreme right.

Who do you think wins in those scenarios?

In the longer term, the demographics are against you. Your "angry old white guy" rhetoric just won't play, dude.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

My mentality is absent both of these. Therefore I have much virtue.

UG....I'm curious who you see as a leader of this so-called grass roots movement....one who shares your mentality and virtue?

Keep in mind that it must be someone who panders to Limbaugh, Beck et al , because w/o their stamp of approval, you lose their minions and he/she would be DOA.