Where Is Sex? - Page 4

Griff · 12-19-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

I understand that it does serve a societal purpose... So does death. That doesn't mean I like it.

The important thing is that you like yourself and your own definition. I must admit that I'm really uncomfortable with this idea of hating masculinity. You do understand that this is really irrational from an evolutionary perspective? It is equivalent to hating feminity for being too nurturing. Let the meatheads define themselves as well, they may grow up someday.

footfootfoot · 12-19-2006, 07:24 PM

Where is the love
(Where is the love)
Where is the love
(Where is the love)
Where is the love
(Where is the love)
Where is the love

Where is the love
You said you'd give to me
Soon as you were free
Will it ever be
Where is the love

You told me that you didn't love him
And you were gonna say goodbye
But if you really didn't mean it
Why did you have to lie

Where is the love
You said was mine all mine
Till the end of time
Was it just a lie
Where is the love

If you had had a sudden change of heart
I wish that you would tell me so
Don't leave me hangin on the promises
You've got to let me know

[Instrumental Interlude]

Oh, how I wish I never met you
I guess it must have been my fate
To fall in love with someone else's love
All I can do is wait
(That's all I can do)
Yeah, hey, yeah

Where is the love

piercehawkeye45 · 12-21-2006, 05:55 PM

I didn't read all the posts so I will get back on topic if it as strayed and I'm sorry if someone already mentioned what I am going to say.

Sex is biological and gender is socialized.

You can not change the fact that a male has a penis and a female has a vagina but you can change gender roles. Some societies have the women as the dominant figure in society while others have them being completely submissive.

MaggieL · 12-21-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

You can not change the fact that a male has a penis and a female has a vagina...

Fair minds might differ on that one. I no longer have a penis and I now have a vagina. Of course, I consider myself female, so there you go.

piercehawkeye45 · 12-21-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Fair minds might differ on that one. I no longer have a penis and I now have a vagina. Of course, I consider myself female, so there you go.

Sorry, I may have used a bad example.

Here is a better one, on your 23rd chromosome it will be Y and not X.

footfootfoot · 12-21-2006, 10:05 PM

These days, probably. Thirty years ago, not so much. I like the analogy though.

wolf · 12-21-2006, 10:09 PM

XX <> XY

wolf · 12-22-2006, 12:47 PM

I'm not avoiding the issue at all, Maggie. Perhaps I should have asked "If I remove the muffler from a Ford, does that make it a Toyota?"

You consider yourself a woman. I react and respond to you in that way as well, however, nothing in terms of social convention, artificial hormones, or surgery changes the fact that if you and I are both tested chromosonally to determine sex, mine comes back XX, yours XY, unless you have a congential abnormality of which I am not aware.

MaggieL · 12-22-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

You consider yourself a woman. I react and respond to you in that way as well, however, nothing in terms of social convention, artificial hormones, or surgery changes the fact that if you and I are both tested chromosonally to determine sex, mine comes back XX, yours XY, unless you have a congential abnormality of which I am not aware.

Until an actual genotyping is done, genetic sex is pretty much Schrodinger's Cat. The other aspects of gender predominate. You don't actually *know* how my genotype would come back if tested any more than I do. And even genetic sex isn't binary.

You claimed that lacking "the equipment to manufacture natural female hormones" made me male...when in fact I lack the equipment to manufacture *any* natual sex hormones (ignoring the adrenal side function of manufacturing small amounts of testosterone common to both males and females), just like you would be if you were to have an oophorectomy. Assuming you actually haven't.

So now you're falling back on a genetic biological determinism...I think that's a deeply flawed view of gender.

wolf · 12-22-2006, 07:55 PM

Gender, but not sex.

MaggieL · 12-22-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Gender, but not sex.

True enough, were we speaking strictly ...but the terms have been used loosely and interchangably throughout this thread. The first post seemed to me to make clear that Ibram was interested in discussing the broader aspects of gender beyond just XY, XX, and the myriad variations thereof.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-23-2006, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

The first post seemed to me to make clear that Ibram was interested in discussing the broader aspects of gender beyond just XY, XX, and the myriad variations thereof.

Nah, he just wants us to worship him.

piercehawkeye45 · 12-22-2006, 10:48 PM

Gender is different in each culture because gender is a social process.

Ibby · 12-23-2006, 10:55 AM

Damn straight!

(or not...)

Trilby · 12-23-2006, 10:56 AM

Where is Sex? I don't know, but if you find him ask him where we can locate his friend, Foreplay.

12-19-2006, 07:24 PM	#2
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	Where is the love (Where is the love) Where is the love (Where is the love) Where is the love (Where is the love) Where is the love Where is the love You said you'd give to me Soon as you were free Will it ever be Where is the love You told me that you didn't love him And you were gonna say goodbye But if you really didn't mean it Why did you have to lie Where is the love You said was mine all mine Till the end of time Was it just a lie Where is the love If you had had a sudden change of heart I wish that you would tell me so Don't leave me hangin on the promises You've got to let me know [Instrumental Interlude] Oh, how I wish I never met you I guess it must have been my fate To fall in love with someone else's love All I can do is wait (That's all I can do) Yeah, hey, yeah Where is the love __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

12-21-2006, 10:05 PM	#6
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	These days, probably. Thirty years ago, not so much. I like the analogy though. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

12-21-2006, 10:09 PM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	XX <> XY __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-22-2006, 12:47 PM	#8
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I'm not avoiding the issue at all, Maggie. Perhaps I should have asked "If I remove the muffler from a Ford, does that make it a Toyota?" You consider yourself a woman. I react and respond to you in that way as well, however, nothing in terms of social convention, artificial hormones, or surgery changes the fact that if you and I are both tested chromosonally to determine sex, mine comes back XX, yours XY, unless you have a congential abnormality of which I am not aware. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-22-2006, 07:55 PM	#10
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Gender, but not sex. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-21-2006, 05:55 PM	#3
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I didn't read all the posts so I will get back on topic if it as strayed and I'm sorry if someone already mentioned what I am going to say. Sex is biological and gender is socialized. You can not change the fact that a male has a penis and a female has a vagina but you can change gender roles. Some societies have the women as the dominant figure in society while others have them being completely submissive.

12-22-2006, 10:48 PM	#13
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Gender is different in each culture because gender is a social process.

12-23-2006, 10:55 AM	#14
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Damn straight! (or not...) __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

12-23-2006, 10:56 AM	#15
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Where is Sex? I don't know, but if you find him ask him where we can locate his friend, Foreplay. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

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