"A Fat Rant"

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Kingswood

For such people it is as wrong to vilify them as it is to vilify someone on the basis of race or gender: people cannot change the genes they inherit.

Insurance companies might soon have a different view. Regardless, I'm fairly certain that most of the nearly one quarter of Americans who suffer from obesity and the full 50% of the population who are categorized as overweight didn't get to where they are due to a "genetics issue".

Originally Posted by Kingswood

Other people may be overweight because their lifestyle may make it difficult for them to find the time to be more healthy. They may lack the time to eat healthy food or to take exercise. For such people, society as a whole has failed them.

I'm not certain that society has failed anyone that consciously chooses to drink so much soda or eat every last bite of the huge portions that are offered on most menus. At the least I'd say that people are ill informed about what they eat, but I'd say most of the blame isn't on anyone else other than the person making their diet selections. I weighed 180 at my heaviest, but I've been at 160 for years thanks to the basic understanding that sitting in an office chair for ten hours a day means I probably shouldn't be eating that huge "recommended breakfast" that ends every cereal commercial and it isn't really a good idea to follow my co-workers when they have lunch at Olive Garden twice a week. Anyone that lives a sedentary life thanks to their job should have the brain to know their diet should be low calorie until they can get out and do something.

I do note that the poor are more likely to be overweight/obese and that while most will joke that obesity is a disease of the wealthy it really is the cheap food that contains so many calories and causes so much weight gain. Eating healthy, these days, is actually very costly. I think that the majority of the people can afford it, however.

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Insurance companies might soon have a different view. Regardless, I'm fairly certain that most of the nearly one quarter of Americans who suffer from obesity and the full 50% of the population who are categorized as overweight didn't get to where they are due to a "genetics issue".

Imagine the outcry if insurance companies refused to cover light-skinned people for skin cancer.

You were also quoting me out of context. You deleted the first sentence of the paragraph:

People who eat a healthy diet and get enough exercise may still be overweight because they have inherited an efficient, thrifty metabolism. For such people it is as wrong to vilify them as it is to vilify someone on the basis of race or gender: people cannot change the genes they inherit.

If everyone ate a healthy diet in moderation and got enough exercise, there would still be fat people. Some people have very efficient metabolisms, and others have inherited appetites that make it difficult to avoid gaining weight.

However, it seems you have completely missed the point that I was making. The difference between dark skin and light skin is about seven genes. A similar number of genes may be the difference between someone with a moderate appetite who can maintain a healthy weight easily, and someone who eats like a sparrow and still gains weight or someone whose appetite becomes ferocious if they lose five kilograms. Such people are only the unlucky recipients of a bad deal from the genetic deck, yet such people are often discriminated against to a degree that is not dissimilar to Apartheid-era South Africa or the Southern USA during the slavery era.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Kingswood

If everyone ate a healthy diet in moderation and got enough exercise, there would still be fat people.

I didn't buy this at first, but I browsed around and found some interesting articles that detail how complex the issues is, including this one about stress.

That's because fat in the abdominal area functions differently than fat elsewhere in the body. It has a greater blood supply as well as more receptors for cortisol, a stress hormone. Cortisol levels rise and fall throughout the day, but when you're under constant stress, the amount of the hormone you produce remains elevated. With high stress and, consequently, high cortisol levels, more fat is deposited in the abdominal area since there are more cortisol receptors there.

That is some odd stuff. Point taken.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Kingswood

If everyone ate a healthy diet in moderation and got enough exercise, there would still be fat people. Some people have very efficient metabolisms, and others have inherited appetites that make it difficult to avoid gaining weight.

We look at those people who have very efficient metabolisms - 40 years ago. What is now considered normal was, back then, considered clearly obese. By today’s standards, there were literally no fat people back then. My grandfather was considered fat. Today about one in three adults are that fat.

Did genetics suddenly change in 40 years? What Kingswood posts can only be credible if people were also that obese 45 years ago. Back then we also were hauled to school in cars, trains, and buses. Nobody walked great distances. Why was fat so rare back then? Or has mankind's genetics changes in only 45 years?

I routinely look in other's shopping carts. I could not eat anything in the carts of the obese. We did not drink soda when I was a kid. It was a rare treat. Today, it replaces milk.

Like Kitsume, my waist is one inch larger than what it was in college. Two inches larger than in high school. I still eat in many ways the same as I did in wrestling. In part because I can measure a drop in intelligence when my diet slips. Yes, even daily intelligence changes with diet. And again, I am appalled at what I see in so many shopping carts. I would be dumb - probably have migraines - if I ate that junk.

Do you have migraines? What do you eat?

When it comes to a thrifty metabolism, that is me. Often I may only eat one major meal every other day. But then one does not get hungry when one avoids diet foods and that junk so common in obese people shopping carts. One gets hungry because the body did not get nutrition. Once you eat a cookie, you must eat half the bag - the body keeps demanding some nutrition in the form of hunger.

For youngsters who would become wrestlers - that is how one loses weight, is not always hungry, and wins matches. By eating right, a wrestler with only two years training had to win by outputting more energy. That meant nutrition – and no dieting. Learn that what you eat today affects even your intelligence tomorrow.

Kitsume has accurately defined the only thing that changed. Look at the crap in so many shopping carts - and that includes diet soda that will also contribute to weight gain.

An example: eat one carrot. Is it nutritious? Yes. It provides today's necessary vitamin A. Eat a second carrot. Is it nutritious? Of course not. More vitamin A is not required. Carrot also is higher in sugar. We already have too much sugar. That second carrot is junk food.

People brainwashed by nutrition taught in TV commercials would never learn that. I learned it from wrestling. My wrestling was only as good as my diet. That meant eliminating junk foods so as to lose 20% of my body weight - and eating nutritious foods so as to not be hungry.

What was necessary to lose weight and maintain my wrestling ability? Breakfast.

When the season ended, I put back 20% in two weeks. How? I continued to eat mostly as I did in wrestling. But, for example, I ate two hot meals for lunch. No junk food. No pizza, etc. We never had potato chips or candy machines in school. That 20% came back mostly as muscle. Again, it is not genetics as TV myth promoters would claim. It is not miracle diet foods. Exercising the abs does not flatten the stomach. All that is myth. People are obese mostly because of what they eat today. Then they jump for myths such as genetics - as if genetics has changed. If an obese person drinks a soda - diet or regular - then he is only fooling himself when blaming genetics. Obesity is directly traceable to the person himself - his destructive attitude.

Apple juice 45 years ago contained juice from apples. Today it is total corn syrup - complete sugar with no nutritional value. Genetics had nothing to do with that either.

Why put corn syrup in apple juice? US government subsidizes sugars. About one half the cost of sugar is paid for my government 'corporate welfare'. Nobody could sell apple juice make with nutrition. It costs more.

Fundamental difference between products from Kellogg’s and General Mills. The former has a long history of pushing low nutrition foods and hyping them as healthy. Nutribars? Total junk food. If you did not know that, then how are you staying at a healthy weight?

[TheMercenary]

Some people eat to much.

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Some people eat to much.

Not all such people get fat. Many teenagers have hollow legs.

And there are people who eat like birds and still gain weight.

It is not just food intake that determines weight. It is food intake and metabolism.

[piercehawkeye45]

A lot of it is also what you eat....unless that is what you meant by food intake.

[TheMercenary]

Your butt is wide, well mine is too
Just watch your mouth or I'll sit on you
The word is out, better treat me right
'Cause I'm the king of cellulite
Ham on, ham on, ham on whole wheat, all right

My zippers bust, my buckles break
I'm too much man for you to take
The pavement cracks when I fall down
I've got more chins than chinatown

Well, I've never used a phone booth
And I've never seen my toes
When I'm goin' to the movies
I take up seven rows

Because I'm fat, I'm fat, come on <-- this is supposed to be "sha mone"
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, you know it
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, come on you know
(fat, fat, really really fat)
Don'tcha call me pudgy, portly or stout
Just now tell me once again who’s fat ahhhhhh!ahhhh!

When I walk out to get my mail
It measures on the Richter scale
Down at the beach I'm a lucky man
I'm the only one who gets a tan
If I have one more pie ala mode
I'm gonna need my own ZIP code

When you're only having seconds
I'm having twenty-thirds
When I go to get my shoes shined
I gotta take their word

Because I'm fat, I'm fat, sha mone
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, you know it
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, you know it you know
(fat, fat, really really fat)
And my shadow weighs forty-two pounds
Lemme tell you once again who's fat

If you see me comin' your way
Better give me plenty space
If I tell you that I'm hungry
Then won't you feed my face

Because I'm fat, I'm fat, come on
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, you know it
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, you know it, you know
(fat, fat, really really fat)
Woo woo woo
(when I sit around the house
I really sit around the house)

You know I'm fat, I'm fat, come on
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, you know it, you know it
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know, you know, you know, come on
(fat, fat, really really fat)
And you know all by myself I’m a crowd
Lemme tell you once again

You know I'm huge, I'm fat, you know it
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, you know, hoo
(fat, fat, really really fat)
You know I'm fat, I'm fat, you know it, you know
(fat, fat, really really fat)
And the whole world knows I'm fat and I'm proud
Just tell me once again who’s fat

[cowhead]

hey kingswood.. off topic a bit but... since you seem to be comfy with latin.. what's a rough translation of ' don't let the bastards get you down'? looked it up online, and all my books are back in kansas.. so help a brother out

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by cowhead

hey kingswood.. off topic a bit but... since you seem to be comfy with latin.. what's a rough translation of ' don't let the bastards get you down'? looked it up online, and all my books are back in kansas.. so help a brother out

I heard a humorous pseudo-Latin phrase that is something like: Illegitimi non carborundum.

(I'm not so good with Latin yet but I have a Latin dictionary with useful phrases and some good bookmarks in my web browser.)

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Kingswood

If everyone ate a healthy diet in moderation and got enough exercise, there would still be fat people.

Yes, but the difference is you would basically only be left with the reasonably healthy overweight people, who would not have the same risk for heart disease and other problems. It's the diseases the insurance companies don't want to cover, not the larger sizes of their clothing.

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Yes, but the difference is you would basically only be left with the reasonably healthy overweight people, who would not have the same risk for heart disease and other problems.

That's not true, and it will be clear if I give you an example.

Suppose we have the following genes:
* gene C that predisposes someone to high cholesterol
* gene M that causes someone to be fat by way of an efficient metabolism

Someone who inherits neither will be thin and have good cholesterol levels.
Someone who inherits C will be predisposed to high cholesterol even if they are thin.
Someone who inherits M will tend to gain weight on moderate diets but will have healthy cholesterol.
Someone who inherits C and M will be fat and have high cholesterol.

Thus, your assertion is incorrect because you don't allow for other genetic factors that also affect health.

It's all a matter of the combination of genes that one inherits. In a world where everyone eats normally and gets exercise (and nobody smokes), there will still be fat people with normal cholesterol, thin people with high cholesterol, and fat people with high cholesterol.

Taken in isolation, being overweight is not a health risk. Other factors need to be present, such as a predisposition to various diseases. Nevertheless, everyone can maximise their chances of good health by eating a healthy diet, getting enough exercise and not smoking.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by tw

Nobody could sell apple juice make with nutrition. It costs more.

It's there, you just have to look for it.

[kerosene]

I think they use grape juice to sweeten it, but that is much better than HFCS.

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by case

I think they use grape juice to sweeten it, but that is much better than HFCS.

Is it my imagination, or do American manufacturers find sugar so expensive that they must resort to various means to sweeten foods more cheaply?

I believe Americans pay far too much for sugar but without knowing the price of sugar in the USA i don't know for sure. I bought sugar this week here in Australia, and I paid A$1.44 for a 1 kilo pack. For the metrically challenged, that works out to be US$0.56 a pound. How much does sugar (sucrose) cost in the USA?