ACORN'S HOUSING-RIGHTS HUSTLERS

Originally Posted by Bullitt

What sucks for you Redux is that we've had much more interaction with lookout than you and as such trust his word at face value. Your blanket suspicion isn't flying because you're the only one here who has an unfounded, inherent distrust of what he has said to have experienced.

Hey. Im not questioning his honesty in one regard. Particularly when he finally said, "I couldn't specifically prove that the events I witnessed were part of a formal ACORN business plan...."

What I think is dishonest is his blanket suspicion and unfounded, inherent distrust and characterization of every person who works in the lobbying industry with one broad stroke:

Lobbyists rank just below child rapists in my book...

Let me be more specific. Individuals who choose to make their living attempting to buy politicians in a legal manner are human fucksticks who I rate just below child rapists on the scale of asshattery.

I honestly dont know how any objective observer would not see this as having a bias that might impact his thinking on the subject.

But I understand now that his unfounded blanket suspicion carries more weight than mine.

Perhaps I should just proceed with the "knowledge" that every one in the housing finance industry is equally despicable because of a few greedy and unethical rogues in the business.

With that, I am done with this discussion.

Its been...interesting? ... to say the least.

[lookout123]

Redux I think you may be operating under the incorrect assumption that I'm trying to convince you of something. I stated my experiences, you don't believe them. That's cool, move on. I will be after this post. I believe I clarified earlier that even I couldn't specifically prove that the events I witnessed were part of a formal ACORN business plan. That would be illegal. They are very good at keeping themselves out of trouble by using the rogue rep ploy.

I'm not part of the republican party, as I find them just as repulsive as the democratic party. My statements in this thread weren't a right/left pile on. I related my personal experiences which you can choose to believe or not, that's up to you.

[classicman]

Sounds like the mob! Everyone knows who they are and what they do. Not all of them have charges brought up tough.

Lookouts word is gold around here. You are a newcomer who is an admitted lobbyist. BTW - who are you lobbying for now? ACORN or one of their many shell companies, err I mean subsidiaries?

Originally Posted by classicman

Lookouts word is gold around here. You are a newcomer who is an admitted lobbyist. BTW - who are you lobbying for now? ACORN or one of their many shell companies, err I mean subsidiaries?

Thanks, classic.

I understand now that a member's word can be more golden than the facts and certainly more than ... ....an admitted lobbyist....particularly if you are predisposed to share that member's opinion.

And presumption of innocence need not apply.

Who needs officials findings of violations of law in order to point your finger at people (or organizations), with whom you might disagree, and declare "guilty" of criminal activity.

I accept the verdict of the lookout/merc/classic court.....ACORN is guilty of high crimes for being an aggressive lobbying and community based organization.

Should I presume you share this sentiment as well:

Lobbyists rank just below child rapists in my book...

Just nod, no independent thinking required!

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Thanks, classic.

I understand now that a member's word can be more golden than the facts and certainly more than ... ....an admitted lobbyist....

you're welcome. Yeh, I've been here for years and not that L123 needs it, but I will certainly defend him.

[DanaC]

Generally speaking, I hear stuff like the ACORN vote rigging, or their actions around mortgages, and I assume bias and misinformation. But Lookout, I trust. I don't necessarily share his analysis, but if he tells me he experienced those actions then he experienced those actions.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Generally speaking, I hear stuff like the ACORN vote rigging, or their actions around mortgages, and I assume bias and misinformation. But Lookout, I trust. I don't necessarily share his analysis, but if he tells me he experienced those actions then he experienced those actions.

Dana...thank you for a reasonable and rationale response and defense of your friend's position.

Originally Posted by classicman

you're welcome. Yeh, I've been here for years and not that L123 needs it, but I will certainly defend him.

Classic....thank for showing your true CLASS by acknowledging that defense of your friend's position required you to join his assault on the character of another member.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Classic....thank for showing your true CLASS by acknowledging that defense of your friend's position required you to join his assault on the character of another member.

I believe it was YOU who attacked him. He defended himself. It was you who challenged his credibility. I defended it. For the record, L123 is not my "friend."

And exactly what politician is going to challenge an organization like ACORN during an election year? They have to be nuts too.

BTW, you didn't answer the question - Who are you lobbying for now?

Originally Posted by classicman

I believe it was YOU who attacked him. He defended himself. It was you who challenged his credibility. I defended it. For the record, L123 is not my "friend."

And exactly what politician is going to challenge an organization like ACORN during an election year? They have to be nuts too.

BTW, you didn't answer the question - Who are you lobbying for now?

Right...asking him to document his allegations that ACORN is a crooked organization engaging in illegal practices is a personal attack.

And of course all lobbyists are a lower life form than child rapists and the housing finance industry is above reproach.

Predatory lending? bah, humbug...a figment of the imagination of groups like ACORN.

And a 2000 HUD-Treasury report on Predatory Lending that described past predatory lending practices is just a load of crap:

Over the last several years, our nation has made enormous progress in expanding access to capital for previously under served borrowers. Despite this progress, however, too many families are suffering today because of a growing incidence of abusive practices in a segment of the mortgage lending market. Predatory mortgage lending practices strip borrowers of home equity and threaten families with foreclosure, destabilizing the very communities that are beginning to enjoy the fruits of our nation’s economic success.

...Throughout the HUD-Treasury forums, there was substantial evidence of too-frequent abuses in the subprime lending market. These abuses tended to fall into four main categories:

Loan Flipping – Some mortgage originators refinanced borrowers’ loans repeatedly in a short period of time. With each successive refinancing, these originators charged high fees, including sometimes prepayment penalties, that stripped borrowers’ equity in their homes.

Excessive fees and “packing” – While subprime lending involves higher costs to the lender than prime lending, in many instances the Task Force saw evidence of fees that far exceeded what would be expected or justified based on economic grounds, and fees that were “packed” into the loan amount without the borrower’s understanding.

Lending without regard to the borrower’s ability to repay – One troubling practice involved lending based on borrowers’ equity in their homes, where the borrowers clearly did not have the capacity to repay the loans. In particularly egregious cases, elderly people living on fixed incomes had monthly payments that equaled or exceeded their monthly incomes. Such loans quickly led borrowers into default and foreclosure.

Outright fraud and abuse – In many instances, abusive practices amount to nothing less than outright fraud. We heard many stories from borrowers who testified at the regional forums of fraud perpetrated by unscrupulous mortgage brokers, lenders, home improvement contractors, appraisers, and combinations thereof. Unscrupulous actors in these markets often prey on certain groups – the elderly, minorities, and individuals with lower incomes and less education – with deceptive or high-pressure sales tactics.

Shame on HUD and ACORN for bringing a little light to the issue of predatory lending.

And what I do now for a living is none of your business...since I think its now fair to assume you will use it against me, regardless of what I say.

[Aliantha]

Just because someone'e been here for a long time doesn't mean they're right...or wrong.

My point?

Length of membership doesn't give you special priviledges...

...or does it?

[DanaC]

It's not about length of membership. Well...maybe a little, but only inasmuch as, with someone who has been here longer we're more likely to have formed a 'reliable' opinion on their character. Having spent a few years getting to know Lookout, I feel fairly confident in suggesting that one of his character traits is scrupulous honesty.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by DanaC

It's not about length of membership. Well...maybe a little, but only inasmuch as, with someone who has been here longer we're more likely to have formed a 'reliable' opinion on their character. Having spent a few years getting to know Lookout, I feel fairly confident in suggesting that one of his character traits is scrupulous honesty.

I'm not suggesting lookout isn't honest. I'm just suggesting that some of you are being a bit unreasonable in expecting someone with no experience of him to just 'take his word for it'.

Sure lo can express his opinion, and if that's what it is, then there's no need to say any more, but just like everyone else, if he's asked for some kind of cite and refuses, then his statement can only be considered an opinion.

Does that make sense?

Classic, I'm really surprised at your responses. I would have thought you of all people would be a bit more reasonable.

[Pico and ME]

But I understand now that his unfounded blanket suspicion carries more weight than mine.

Perhaps I should just proceed with the "knowledge" that every one in the housing finance industry is equally despicable because of a few greedy and unethical rogues in the business.

Here..here.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

And what I do now for a living is none of your business...since I think its now fair to assume you will use it against me, regardless of what I say.

Nope - just looking for a little perspective. I'm beginning to wonder if you are one of them.

Originally Posted by classicman

I'm beginning to wonder if you are one of them.

A very mature response.

Nope...I can say with 100% confidence that I am not lower than a child rapist.....how about you?