Hero or Greedy American?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by bmgb

As I've stated, no, I didn't see that.

[hot_pastrami]

Your argument intentionally overlooks some very important details:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
She can't make time to visit the guy that ultimately was responsible for saving her life because she has commitments to her book?

1) I wouldn't say that he ultimately saved her life... the article says "The Iraqi lawyer, whose information helped lead U.S. soldiers to rescue the captured Wirt County resident..." (emphasis mine). So, he told somebody that she was there, and that information helped lead US soldiers to her. Helpful? Yes. Ultimately responsible for saving her life? No. That honor goes to the soldiers who actually went in and got her out.
2) It's not only her book commitments, but her 5-days-a-week physical therapy. So the woman doesn't use some of her very limited free time to meet with an Iraqi citizen? Gasp!

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
While I appreciate that she joined the military, and that she put her ass on the line for her country (and indirectly me), that does not automatically equal hero.
The guy that threw a grenade into his CO's tent was in the military, too. Is he a hero?
That bacon from the other thread...he was in the military too. That make him a hero?
Dubya was in the military. That make him a hero?
My exhusband has been in the military for damn near 20 years. That make him a hero?
My nephew is in the Marines and was in one of the units that entered Baghdad that day. He was in one of the units that Oliver North was embedded in. Is my nephew a hero?

No.

Well, you have a point. Joining the military isn't going to automatically make anyone a hero. But if that person was already a decent, honest person, and that person put herself in physical danger and risked her life for her country, it makes her something closer to a hero than most of the population, probably including you.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
The best she can come up with is "I don't remember."

Untrue. She has stated many times that the stories of her fighting heroically just before her capture are completely unfounded. She is spreading the truth of her story in the face of lies and propaganda.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
The one, presumably, that says she was raped. When all the doctors say she wasn't.

The only doctors saying she wasn't raped are Iraqi doctors, who also admit that they weren't looking for evidence of rape.

I wonder, what must a person do before they may have the honor of being considered a hero to you? Save a life? She was there in Iraq trying to save many lives. Tell the truth? She does so where most people would lack the moral conviction to do the same.

NOTE: I was still typing this when dave posted his stuff.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
To be honest, I don't give a rats' ass if she was raped or if she wasn't

Wow. That speaks volumes.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by hot_pastrami

Wow. That speaks volumes.

Bad things happen to good people. It's a sad, sorry fact of life. Lots of women have been raped through history. Whether she was raped or not has no bearing on her heroism.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Bad things happen to good people. It's a sad, sorry fact of life. Lots of women have been raped through history. Whether she was raped or not has no bearing on her heroism.

And if you'd said something like "whether she was raped has no relevance to whether or not she is a hero," it wouldn't bother me. But to say that you don't give a rat's ass whether it happened to her... that is cold.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Bad things happen to good people. It's a sad, sorry fact of life. Lots of women have been raped through history. Whether she was raped or not has no bearing on her heroism.

...besides, I don't think anybody here suggested that being raped has anything to do with her heroism. The heroic part is that she has medical evidence that says she was raped, but instead of trying to use that evidence for personal gain, she is honestly saying that she remembers no such thing.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by hot_pastrami
The only doctors saying she wasn't raped are Iraqi doctors, who also admit that they weren't looking for evidence of rape.

True.

I wonder, what must a person do before they may have the honor of being considered a hero to you? Save a life? She was there in Iraq trying to save many lives. Tell the truth? She does so where most people would lack the moral conviction to do the same.

I don't have a set of predefined notions what a hero is. It's not like I go down a checklist. But yes, to me, a person that saves lives or even one life is a hero of sorts. Telling the truth does not make you a hero. It makes you honest.

I'm not saying she's not a good person. All I'm saying is to me she is not a hero. Again, I don't know if she's a greedy american or not. But to me, she's not a hero. Why is that so hard to accept? I'm not saying in ANY way that I am better than her. I'm not saying she's not brave. I'm not saying she's not courageous. I'm not calling her a liar. I'm not saying she fronting. From what I have seen with my own eyes, the stories that I have read (and apperantly it's not all of them), I'm not convinced she is not profiting from her misfortune. And by the way, that's not to make a judgement on whether that is right or wrong. Simply my opinion at this time. Again, I'm open to changing my ideas on this. It's just an opinion that with

REASONABLE

arguement (and less personal attacks) is open to change. Open mind, people. Keep an open mind.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by hot_pastrami

And if you'd said something like "whether she was raped has no relevance to whether or not she is a hero," it wouldn't bother me. But to say that you don't give a rat's ass whether it happened to her... that is cold.

Dave has a way of irritating me with personal attacks. And he does it on purpose because he knows I fall for it every time.

Yes. It's cold to say I don't give a rat's ass. It really is. And I'd hand her a tissue at a group therapy session. No woman should ever be brutalized that way. In a general sense, yeah, I feel bad for her. Like I feel bad about all of Henry the eighth's wives that were killed for no damn reason. It sucks. But I don't lose sleep over it.

[tw]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
To be honest, I don't give a rats' ass if she was raped or if she wasn't, in fact I hope she can't remember it if she was, because it's NOT FUN.

I didn't say she was a liar. Not once. And you know what? It doesn't matter if she's a liar or not. She's a hero to America whether she was raped or not, whather she remembers or not, or whether she disputes it or not. The media has decided she is, so she is.

I agree completely. And so this thread missing the point. Lynch is simply the central topic of something far larger. They lied. The same top political leaders who lied about so many other things also lied about Jessica Lynch. That is the most important point.

Who did the lying? Why did they lie? They knew they were lying because they did not have the facts to say what they did. That is the Jessica Lynch story. They lied.

They disparaged Jessica Lynch. Made her into something she was not. I hope she makes a $million. She deserves it because of what top government officials did. But here is the real story. We are not blaming anyone who did the lying. They are not being punished as demonstrated by approve poll numbers. IOW we too are conspriing to protect the guilty by worrying only about the symptom - Jessica Lynch. Her character is irrelevant. What happened to her is only important as far as who in top government intentionally lied.

The real story about Jessic Lynch is the lying that has become standard procedure among the highest officials. Whether she meets someone credited with her rescue is silly. What a liar would have us argue about so that we forget one thing - they lied. Stick to important facts - not a human interest story with is broadcast for trivial minds. Important fact is they lied. Only the lies are important.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Open mind, people. Keep an open mind.

Yours being a stunning example. No, really. I was being serious. Really. No, I'm not kidding. No, I'm not being sarcastic. Yes. Just like yours. Honestly. For real. I swear. Yes, I'm telling the truth. No, I'm smiling because I thought of something funny. It was a duck. Quacking. Yes. But seriously. Yours is a stunning example of said trait. Really.

[OnyxCougar]

tw agrees with me completely?

*sigh* Now I know I need to stop posting....

*wink at tw* just kidding, sweetie.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Telling the truth does not make you a hero. It makes you honest.

True. I'm a very honest person myself (honest!). It makes me very uncomfortable to lie, so I don't do it. And that does not make me a hero.

But frankly, most "honest" people are probably too weak to be as honest as she has been under the circumstances. If she weren't so vocal about getting the truth out there, the world would still believe that she was captured in a heroic, blazing firefight, defending her fellow soldiers to her last bullet. Enough to make her a hero by itself? Perhaps not... but a moving display of honesty it is.

I like to think that I'd be strong enough to be so honest under such cirmstances, I certainly hope so... but no one can really know until they are in the moment.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I'm not calling her a liar. I'm not saying she fronting.

But, you did imply that she was a liar, and fronting:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
She's busy with her new book. The one, presumably, that says she was raped. When all the doctors say she wasn't.

Originally posted by OnyxCougar

Again, I'm open to changing my ideas on this. It's just an opinion that with

REASONABLE

arguement (and less personal attacks) is open to change. Open mind, people. Keep an open mind.

And with that, you patronizingly imply that all of the statements contrary to yours are unreasonable. Open mind indeed.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by dave


Yours being a stunning example. No, really. I was being serious. Really. No, I'm not kidding. No, I'm not being sarcastic. Yes. Just like yours. Honestly. For real. I swear. Yes, I'm telling the truth. No, I'm smiling because I thought of something funny. It was a duck. Quacking. Yes. But seriously. Yours is a stunning example of said trait. Really.

*blink* OK.

I've stated it many times before, but apparently certain people have reading comprehension issues (don't they hold you back for that?). So here goes, one more time...

I'm not busting a vessel. I never get un-calm. The only time my heartrate rises when reading the Cellar is when I start laughing at the utterly ridiculous things that roll off the fingers of some of our regulars. You're projecting your own excitement onto me. You assume that since you get furious and incensed over these things, I must too. I've got many people that frequent this place that are around me when I write, and they can tell you, this never happens.

What I <b>am</b> guilty of, however, is calling out an imbecile when I see one trying to act smart.

[OnyxCougar]

True. I can't see you at your computer, so I don't know that you aren't frothing at the mouth when you spew personal insults.

My frustration at you making personal insults when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand reflect in what I post.

So forgive me if I project my opinion of your state of mind on your posts.

I wouldn't know about what consistutes holding someone back, as I've never been held back. What does that have to do with Jessica Lynch?

And I have seen you call out imbeciles before. But you don't have to get on a personal level with a person that disagrees with you, Dave.

And Alan, when I said reasonable, I meant not personally insulting, I didn't mean to imply that everyone else's arguments were unreasonable. However, I am full out saying that anything with a personal insult *is* unreasonable.