What do you do Nov 3rd?

It's a government secret! Come to think of it, George Jr. did have his flight priviledges revoked for not showing up for his physical for the National Guard.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Does anyone reading this thread actually know someone who was actually prevented from getting on any flight?

By prevented, do you mean stopped from boarding but ultimately allowed to fly or barred from flying ever?

[Happy Monkey]

I skimmed back a bit - what flights are you referring to?

[Undertoad]

Well Russ has set the bar pretty high, as "never be able to get on a commercial flight again", but let's take any particular restriction of over 24 hours, for the purposes of seeing what turns up.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Well Russ has set the bar pretty high, as "never be able to get on a commercial flight again", but let's take any particular restriction of over 24 hours, for the purposes of seeing what turns up.

Ahh. Haven't reached the 24 hour mark yet, but I do know a couple of people who were detained, one for about 6 hours and the other for around 8, before being released to 'go about their business'.

[Happy Monkey]

How about Cat Stevens? Ted Kennedy? Anyone named David Nelson? And those are just a few of the ones that were amusing enough to make the news.

If you meant know personally, the people I know don't fly much...

Actually, the "no-fly" list is NOT a matter of public record. For a sampling of citizens' complaints about being placed on this list, look here: http://www.epic.org/foia_docs/airtravel/congress1.pdf

[flippant]

hahaha kennedy...

[russotto]

One person on Baen's Bar (another board not quite entirely unlike this one) says that he's had exactly that -- arrest and questioning by three-letter agencies and placement on the no-fly list -- happen to him, as a result of posting a rant on that board.

[Undertoad]

Do you think the three-letter agencies would have a similar story about why they placed him? (Might there be more to it?)

[russotto]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Do you think the three-letter agencies would have a similar story about why they placed him? (Might there be more to it?)

If the TLAs have a story, they aren't telling it. Which is one of the problems with the no-fly list... they don't HAVE to justify themselves. There's no review and no oversight. Blatant violation of the constitution (punishment without trial), but one which will no doubt be upheld by SCOTUS using the talisman of "public safety".

[Happy Monkey]

Here's a discussion of various airline-watchlist-related stories.No outright bannings mentioned, as of yet.

The cite I gave above contains the documentation of an innocent individual who is consistently being detained and delayed each time he attempts to fly somewhere. Everything is reproduced on Federal Agency letter heads. His example is just one of many.

[Undertoad]

I'm just trying to see how big a problem it is, at this time.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I'm just trying to see how big a problem it is, at this time.

What about people arrested only because they had a video camera? A friend just told me his story of their trip to NYC. They were video tapping interesting cars, and just having fun. When they went through the Lincoln Tunnel, they were arrested by the NYPD. Because one had once heard a name (a name that was on a watch list- a name he had once heard on TV news), then they were all held for most of that day.

One of their tasks was to visit the Egyptian Embassy. They ended up only seeing the Lincoln Tunnel and an NYPD stationhouse. Their entire trip to NYC - and their one day off - was wasted only because they looked Arab and had been using a video camera.

The NYPD cop did apologize and even gave each his card so that they could call for help when it happened again.

How many immigrants are your friends. Too many of mine are being detained for nothing. After a program that required 80,000 immigrants to 'come in for a voluntary talk', not one terrorist was discovered. At what point do we acknowledge that FBI agents, when empowered to do their jobs pre-9/11, were more than sufficient to make America safe.

The system worked when a president read his memos - and gave federal employees warnings as to what to look for. The system worked when terrorist investigators such as John O'Neill were not driven from law enforcement for simply demanding facts; because the George Jr administration did not like his aggressive terrorist investigations. People like O'Neill were more than sufficient so many times to discover terrorist bombs all over the world. O'Neill even had the names of what would become 9/11 attackers.

Richard Clarke was this nation's #1 anti-terrorist in the White House. Even he was demoted by a president who could not bother to read blunt warnings about real world terrorists.

A new president never reads his memos - says that terrorism is not a major problem. He never puts out the warning in the 6 Aug Presidential Daily Briefing- even demotes his counter terrorism group from principle level. So instead we must now detain everyone who looks like a terrorist (also called racism)? What does a terrorist look like? Can you just look at evil and recognize it? When do we fix the real problem? When do we get a presidient who reads memos and makes his own decisions? Therein lies the problem.