Critique of Black Culture

[lookout123]

Thank you Dar. I agree. People are people. We have a natural tendency to break the world down to us and them, but I have a major problem with the people that stand up and cry for equality and an end to discrimination while perpetuating the us vs them mentality.

The laws in America have been changed to end segregation and the other nasty elements that went along with it. that happened years ago, we are still in the ongoing process of eliminating the thought process that is racism. the problem is that there are people who benefit by keeping the us vs them going (Jackson, Sharpton, some of the leadership of the NAACP). having a cause to champion is the key to their power and authority. if they encouraged a truly color blind society like MLK, Jr envisioned and spoke of, they would see their locus of power dissipate.

there are still many ignorant people with subconscious racially biased thought processes that affect their actions. there will always be some ignorant fools who consciously and purposely promote racism. we all know the KKK still exists and most americans despise them for what they are - ignorant, cruel fools who want to keep our society divided and racially conflicted. But the KKK aren't the only ones who do this - I believe, to a degree, Jackson, Sharpton, and Co. do the exact same thing just with different verbage.

The only way to truly end racially motivated discrimination and ignorant behavior is for the groups to integrate and know each other as individuals. the average person has biases against certain groups of people, but they may have friends that fall into those groups. They don't have any problems with that person and respect and view them just as any other person. That person has been removed from the group bias because the biased individual knows them as a person.

As long as we have large groups of people rallying together because of their "differentness" then we will have fear, ignorance, descrimination, and all the nasty things that go along with it.

[Troubleshooter]

Like I posted earlier, the only really important differences are in how people think, not skin color, height, shape of the nose, etc.

[Beestie]

[In reponse to dar's post]

Well, if we want to turn the focus back to the "individual" then we should probably cease using the term "culture." Unless we are saying that the term "[fill-in-the-blank] culture" has no meaning since its a generalization and that generalizations do not apply.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Thank you Dar. I agree. People are people. We have a natural tendency to break the world down to us and them, but I have a major problem with the people that stand up and cry for equality and an end to discrimination while perpetuating the us vs them mentality.

Yes, "people are people": great on paper, great to say and a kick ass song by a kick ass group..oh sorry.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this is all lip service: "We're all the same" "People are People", etc.Just because one says it doesn't and won't make it true. Funny how "all men are created equal" but are not treated as such.

I realize this may not be the "popular" view here, but oh well, that's just how I see things.

Clodfobble said:

"See, but you're not making a point if your whole point is "If you don't get it already, I can't explain it to you."

LOL, but you just said that was my "whole point" so wouldn't that have BEEN a point?

And at any rate, when I said, "any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.)." was merely to say that a single black person couldn't possibly speak for other blacks (plural). Damn. And why should I? That's not my responsibility or job to do, and I won't. Just as I don't expect other blacks to speak for ME.

You made a veiled threat about how some people on this board would not like one bit what issues black folks are talking about, but won't simply name those issues.

Threat? Threat???? LMAO! Lordy...No, not at all. (good grief!!) WTF is up with all these assumptions?!

ANYhoo, I did state (not threaten) that there are indeed some topics and issues that blacks discuss that certainly would not set right with some people here. And the only reason why I posted the link to the radio station that I listen to quite frequently is so that people here could hear FIRST HAND (or at least, get SOME idea) what I was talking about, instead of having me to explain and not get my point across clearly, and end up having a senseless back and forth thing that will just get dragged on and on into oblivion.

You claim to be in the know about what black folks are talking about, but then you suggest that we go to the source.

Precisely. Isn't that what Cellerites love...sources? Besides, why are you getting so bent out of shape about that?

Why is some inflammatory DJ any more or less "the source" than you are?

If you are referring to Ms. Mary Mason (noted in UT's post to me), I have to say that she is not so much "inflammatory" as she is brutally honest with many things. But, that's in the eye of the beholder...

However, as I told UT, there are many other show hosts that one can listen to on that station. I would really love to be able to tune you all into Joe Madison. I listened to him while back home in MD, and he was a great source of information: http://joemadison.com/

And as I said, I thought that's what people here appreciated: a link to a source to examine, study, etc. etc.

Funny: when anyone else here provides a link, it's just a link, people check it out, and even comment on the source (good, bad, can't trust it, whatever), but in this case, it's considered a "homework assignment" and I get all kinds of adversity about it...interesting.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

Yes, "people are people": great on paper, great to say and a kick ass song by a kick ass group..oh sorry.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this is all lip service: "We're all the same" "People are People", etc.Just because one says it doesn't and won't make it true. Funny how "all men are created equal" but are not treated as such.

I realize this may not be the "popular" view here, but oh well, that's just how I see things.

To my knowledge God/Mother Nature makes people and I doubt if he/she has read the declaration of independence. People are not equal, some are pretty, some are smart, some have rhythm, and some have mechanical ability. Only a few of us have it all.

Funny: when anyone else here provides a link, it's just a link, people check it out, and even comment on the source (good, bad, can't trust it, whatever), but in this case, it's considered a "homework assignment" and I get all kinds of adversity about it...interesting.

C'mon Rho, how long do I have to listen to these stations to find out what there discussing? 1 hour? 1 evening? 1 week? That's hardly the same as linking an article that I can read at my convenience and make a judgement on it's author and content. I'm not looking for a hobby or thesis subject. Besides, I wonder if what makes it on the radio as the supposed topics on every black mind, is the same as the shit being talked about among blacks when I walk up and they look at me like "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".
I work with some older black men that have been around long enough to have lived Jim Crow at it's worst. They've been colored, nigger, negro, black and African American. A few on them won't even talk to white people unless it's required to do their job. They've told me stories (yeah they talk to me) of things that happened to them in the 30's, 40's and 50's that floored me. Regardless of the changing laws and times, you can't say, that's in the past, move on, to these men. They have been permanently scarred, I would be too. But to their credit they don't preach hate to the younger ones and give me the impression they don't approve of the "jive ass niggas" either.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by lookout123

As long as we have large groups of people rallying together because of their "differentness" then we will have fear, ignorance, descrimination, and all the nasty things that go along with it.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with celebrating our differences as people. The problems start when one group thinks of themselves as superior to others.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by sycamore

The problems start when one group thinks of themselves as superior to others.

But, everyone thinks the group they belong to is superior to other groups, at least on some level. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's when you combine that pride with a lack of human decency and respect. Ignorant, hateful people can be found in any race, country, religion, whatever.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by sycamore

I don't think that there's anything wrong with celebrating our differences as people. The problems start when one group thinks of themselves as superior to others.

but that is inevitable. group relationships always fall into competition and conflict on some level.

think about when you were a kid on some sports team. you hated those bastards on the other team. they didn't play like you. they weren't as good as your team and they cheated, too. fast forward 12 months and the teams have shifted. now that some of those guys from the other team are on your team, they aren't so bad afterall. all of humanity is divided into "us and them". the more actively a group maintains its separateness and differentness, the more likely it will be viewed with suspicion and negative attitudes.

i'm not saying that we shouldn't all be proud of who we are, but there are much more important aspects of oneself to take pride in than our color.

why should you be proud of your color anyway? could you change it if you weren't especially proud of it? and how about guys like us syc? - "i'm proud to be white." if that isn't an invitation for people to wonder if you are white supremist i don't know what is. but you hear about black pride, hispanic pride, etc. and it is just dandy.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by dar512

Discussions like this one are bogus. Blacks are like this. Whites are like this. Talk about your overgeneralizations.

Treat people as individuals and not as 'examples' of some group and everything else will come out in the wash.

Many people do treat others as individuals...that's a good thing. I don't think discussions like this are a bad thing though because (at least to me) it's a given that not everyone is going to fit into a particular "mold."

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Two items

I reread the thread, which is sometimes good to do, and I think Cyber Wolf has the most insightful comment in it, summarizing Sharpton and Rangel as trying to be the heroic black leaders of the past but failing to address the fact that the past is past.

*Pleads the fifth...*

I listened to Mary Mason on WHAT for 15 minutes just now. This discussion was on incarceration of innocents. I don't think I learned anything at all about black culture. Ms. Mason has annoyed me for many decades now and I won't be further annoyed. LSyc, if you have a point to make about it you are not getting it across by giving out homework assignments.

There are several other hosts on the station that are worth listening to. If you can, try Reggie Bryant between 10pm and 1am. Yes, that's late for most folk. He used to be on during the day. I think he got bumped to late night to make room for Air America (12 noon-7pm). Also, the lineup on the weekends is pretty good as well.

I honestly felt that I had made my point by giving the link to the site for those who would want to listen to the station. IMO, any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.). You know how they say, "go to the source".

But, that's just me. *shrugs*

[wolf]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

I think he got bumped to late night to make room for Air America (12 noon-7pm).

That is absolutely hilarious ... white liberal talk radio has taken away the voice of expression of blacks. Gotta love it.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by wolf

That is absolutely hilarious ... white liberal talk radio has taken away the voice of expression of blacks. Gotta love it.

Oh, Wolf...I love you to death, but sometimes, I dunno about you.

White liberal talk radio isn't "taking black voices away"...it's the owner of the station. In the case of WHAT, that would be Inner City Broadcasting, which is a company owned and run by...

wait for it...

black people!!!

Now of course, one could argue as you did. And one could argue that ICBC is beating up on its own kind. But given that many black folks will probably agree with a lot of the things that Al (who I happen to think is hilarious--you should listen to his CD) and his gang are discussing, one could argue that ICBC is merely adding "stronger" voices and/or being diverse.

[Clodfobble]

And I think blacks know way more about white culture than vice versa because they live in (what is still) a predominantly white culture.

Bullshit.

In real life, they live in their community, which urban demographics show is most likely to be a concentration of minorities, rather than a nationwide even distribution of one black family surrounded by eight white ones. So they are surrounded by their own culture there.

And in the media, a disproportionate amount of TV shows, commercials, and movies are steeped in Black culture, styles, and trends. I personally feel it's about a 50/50 split, but that's just anecdotal from channel-surfing. Regardless, they have plenty of cultural representation there.

The only place that I will agree is still dominated by white culture is the internet. To which I simply say--give it time.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

In real life, they live in their community, which urban demographics show is most likely to be a concentration of minorities, rather than a nationwide even distribution of one black family surrounded by eight white ones. So they are surrounded by their own culture there.

Of course. But that's one part of a whole.

And in the media, a disproportionate amount of TV shows, commercials, and movies are steeped in Black culture, styles, and trends. I personally feel it's about a 50/50 split, but that's just anecdotal from channel-surfing. Regardless, they have plenty of cultural representation there.

Some parts of black culture are certainly becoming more mainstream, like hip-hop (which I personally think is overplayed in the media). But that's still just one part (or a few parts) of a whole. Not to mention, other cultures are taking things like slang and hip-hop and putting their stamps on them...so is that more representative of black culture in the end, or more representative of the culture "updating" it? Or is it equal?

The only place that I will agree is still dominated by white culture is the internet. To which I simply say--give it time.

I think that there is definitely a "digital divide" in terms of users, but as far as content, I'd say the 'net is incredibly diverse compared to "reality."

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

*Pleads the fifth...*

...

IMO, any explaination that I could give would not prove or explain much of anything (as far as what a group of blacks are talking about, listening to, etc.).

See, but you're not making a point if your whole point is "If you don't get it already, I can't explain it to you." You made a veiled threat about how some people on this board would not like one bit what issues black folks are talking about, but won't simply name those issues. You claim to be in the know about what black folks are talking about, but then you suggest that we go to the source. Why is some inflammatory DJ any more or less "the source" than you are?