Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Yep. Unsourced...

(cue the 60 Minutes stopwatch: tick tick tick...)

[tw]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

tick tick tick...)

There it is. Urbane Guerrilla is a ticking time bomb just waiting to explode.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Still unsourced, and two current posts from tw. Is tw then a lying bastard? Or should it be then and now...?

Perhaps I am a crocodile that once swallowed an alarm clock, and at another time, a captain's arm, and now wants the rest...

[BigV]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Anyway, it is an interesting philosophical argument whether a tyrant can also be a patriot.

We always talk about democracy and patriotism, but we always seem to ignore the fact that in many cases the democratic and patriotic goals of other countries are in conflict with our goals. It's like saying to a five-year-old "I know I told you that you can have what you want for dinner, but you don't want pizza, what you really want is broccoli".

rich, you answered your own question here. If you serve broccoli, you're a tyrant. If you serve pizza, you're a patriot.

[Griff]

What about broccoli pizza?

[DanaC]

If you serve broccolli pizza I think that makes youa communist...

[Clodfobble]

At the very least, a flip-flopper.

"I actually chose the broccoli before I chose the pizza!"

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

"I actually chose the broccoli before I chose the pizza!"

Now you sound like Hillary!

[DanaC]

I am really not interested in allowing other countries to tell us what is in our best interest.

But you're quite happy for your country to tell others what is in their best interest ?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

But you're quite happy for your country to tell others what is in their best interest ?

Not at all. If I had my way we would withdraw all, and I do mean all, funding from all countries and fix our problems at home. I think we should stay out of everyone's business and let them self destruct. Some will make it, some will not. See who is left over and deal with the winners. Take WW2...

[piercehawkeye45]

Merc, what if a neighboring country is doing something that is hurting your country?

Lets say the Mexico starts releasing this chemical that causes very powerful acid rain and tears up the ozone layer but when Mexico releases these chemicals, they drift up to Georgia. Shouldn't we have a right to tell Mexico to stop using those chemicals or at least release them somewhere else.............like Canada :p ?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Merc, what if a neighboring country is doing something that is hurting your country?

Well on the diplomatic front I would just advocated nuking the fuck out of them and seeing who is left over. I mean really, we just can't go on having it both ways.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well on the diplomatic front I would just advocated nuking the fuck out of them and seeing who is left over. I mean really, we just can't go on having it both ways.

Hahaha, I like that idea.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh yeah, that's a wonderful idea. Then we'd have a nuclear dust cloud over Georgia instead.

[tw]

Intelligent people know that torture results in less or unreliable information. Those with 'big dic' disease - a mental disorder - would disagree. From the Washington Post of 6 Oct 2007:

Fort Hunt's Quiet Men Break Silence on WWII
When about two dozen veterans got together yesterday for the first time since the 1940s, many of the proud men lamented the chasm between the way they conducted interrogations during the war and the harsh measures used today in questioning terrorism suspects.

Back then, they and their commanders wrestled with the morality of bugging prisoners' cells with listening devices. They felt bad about censoring letters. They took prisoners out for steak dinners to soften them up. They played games with them.

"We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture," said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess.

Blunt criticism of modern enemy interrogations was a common refrain at the ceremonies held beside the Potomac River near Alexandria. Across the river, President Bush defended his administration's methods of detaining and questioning terrorism suspects during an Oval Office appearance.

Several of the veterans, all men in their 80s and 90s, denounced the controversial techniques. And when the time came for them to accept honors from the Army's Freedom Team Salute, one veteran refused, citing his opposition to the war in Iraq and procedures that have been used at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"I feel like the military is using us to say, 'We did spooky stuff then, so it's okay to do it now,' " said Arno Mayer, 81, a professor of European history at Princeton University.

When Peter Weiss, 82, went up to receive his award, he commandeered the microphone and gave his piece.

"I am deeply honored to be here, but I want to make it clear that my presence here is not in support of the current war," said Weiss, chairman of the Lawyers' Committee on Nuclear Policy and a human rights and trademark lawyer in New York City.

George Jr is so quick to deny when facts say America was torturing (Cheney even publically advocated torture). From the NY Times of 5 Oct 2007:

Bush Says Interrogation Methods Aren’t Torture
President Bush, reacting to a Congressional uproar over the disclosure of secret Justice Department legal opinions permitting the harsh interrogation of terrorism suspects, defended the methods on Friday, declaring, “This government does not torture people.”

The remarks, Mr. Bush’s first public comments on the memorandums, came at a hastily arranged Oval Office appearance before reporters. It was billed as a talk on the economy, but after heralding new job statistics, Mr. Bush shifted course to a subject he does not often publicly discuss: a once-secret Central Intelligence Agency program to detain and interrogate high-profile terror suspects.

“I have put this program in place for a reason, and that is to better protect the American people,” the president said, without mentioning the C.I.A. by name. “And when we find somebody who may have information regarding a potential attack on America, you bet we’re going to detain them, and you bet we’re going to question them, because the American people expect us to find out information — actionable intelligence so we can help protect them. That’s our job.”

Without confirming the existence of the memorandums or discussing the explicit techniques they authorized, Mr. Bush said the interrogation methods had been “fully disclosed to appropriate members of Congress.”

We must make a decision. America tortures prisoners (resulting in numerous phony Orange Alerts, Guantanamo, and secret prisons), or George Jr tells the truth. These are mutually exclusive conditions. Most extraordinary - some still say George Jr is honest. Of course he is. He talks to god - which is also what George Jr claims. Some with 'big dic' disease even believe him.