What is wrong with you people?

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Griff

That...was...awesome. I've been thinking about social controls a lot lately. At work, I see what happens to kids when their parents slide into the garden of evil, but I also see the result of punishing the underclass. Moral Humility, catch it. I'm ready to take the nonpartisan pledge now.

I'm not *smiles*. I am however ready to step outside of the matrix from time to time to remind myself of the whole. We need both 'sides' active in politics in order to forge the society we've forged. If nobody is prepared to set themselves into one side or the other and fight for their vision of society's future, it will lead to a kind of political stagnation. We need th partisan as we need the nonpartisan.

[Griff]

Right now in America society can't afford the partisanship. Britain has its symbolic center of loyalty in the Royal Family. We had it in the Presidency, but the Clinton / Bush years have dissolved those bonds. Our flag has been missused to the point that it is practically a symbol of GOP loyalty rather than national. Obama gives us a chance to reclaim the office for all Americans, because he is smart enough to recognize the truths buried in the arguments of the other. A highly partisan Congress of his own party may be his biggest anti-unity problem. McCain could do well with a Democratic Congress, but the Palin one heart be away issue is kinda scarey.

A great worry right now is a protracted legal battle after the election. Voting is kind of like a national sacrament. Destroy its sanctity and we've got chaos.

[TheMercenary]

Fantastic post Dana! I will check it out.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

Right now in America society can't afford the partisanship.

But I have not seen any evidence that it is going to get better soon. As I have said in other threads, I believe this election will be a landslide win by Obama or a thread bare win by McCain. Both results continue to divide the country on many levels. If Pelosi, Obama, Reid, et. al. are able to push through the majority of changes they have proposed we will see a similar backlash in 4 or 8 years and things will most likely swing back the other way again. Wash and repeat. The conservatives and liberals in this country will never see eye-to-eye. And it has been evident to me that with each defeat of one or the other the loser becomes more entrenched and rabid.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I think the part of this TED talk that really struck home with me was the final distinction drawn between the liberals who seek to increase fairness and freedoms even at the risk of chaos, and conservatives who seek to preserve order, even at the risk of unfairness or a loss of freedoms.

I didn't read this before posting, brilliant summary.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

But I have not seen any evidence that it is going to get better soon. As I have said in other threads, I believe this election will be a landslide win by Obama or a thread bare win by McCain. Both results continue to divide the country on many levels. If Pelosi, Obama, Reid, et. al. are able to push through the majority of changes they have proposed we will see a similar backlash in 4 or 8 years and things will most likely swing back the other way again. Wash and repeat. The conservatives and liberals in this country will never see eye-to-eye. And it has been evident to me that with each defeat of one or the other the loser becomes more entrenched and rabid.

The question for me is will Pelosi and Reid take orders? What some folks see as an aloofness or superiority in Obama, I recognize as confidence and understanding. Hopefully, the Dems don't break the magic 60 barrier in the Senate.

[TheMercenary]

I really think they just may break the 60. It is quite possible if you believe the summaries of the various major news shows. They have all been running similar assessments, specifically NBC and ABC last night. If they break the 60 I predict a major backlash in 4 to 8 years. With a recycle that will make the last swing of the pendulum look like childs play.

[Griff]

I see what you're saying, we could be in for a bumpy ride. Of course all these years of Republican rule got us a socialist economy so maybe the Democrats will free us?

[Undertoad]

Only Nixon could go to China
Only Carter could deregulate airlines, banking, and interstate commerce
Only Reagan could massively increase the social security tax
Only G.H.W. Bush could implement the strengthened Clean Air Act
Only Clinton could reform welfare and pass NAFTA
Only W. could forge a $700B economic bailout

Do not fear the loyal opposition, they are necessary to getting done what you believe is important.

Mark my words, a 60-vote D congress and D Presidency will result in the most amazing forms of gridlock you have ever seen.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

I see what you're saying, we could be in for a bumpy ride. Of course all these years of Republican rule got us a socialist economy so maybe the Democrats will free us?

I am all for change. I am just not sure Obama is the change that will free us. When I hear Pelosi stand up not much more than a week after a 850 billion dollar bail out and state she has some more great things to add that will cost us another 150 billion and then come right back a week later and wants to up it to 300 billion more I worry. Speaking out of one side of the mouth bitching at the costs of the war and speaking out the other side and saying, "hey let's spend the money on something else!". It does not sound like we are headed towards a repair of the debt from 8 years of war. Personally I think the damm Iraqi's should pay for part of it.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Mark my words, a 60-vote D congress and D Presidency will result in the most amazing forms of gridlock you have ever seen.

Expand this idea for me.

[TheMercenary]

Filibuster.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It does not sound like we are headed towards a repair of the debt from 8 years of war. Personally I think the damm Iraqi's should pay for part of it.

I wonder if the recent drop in gas demand will blow a hole in their budget?

[TheMercenary]

It will have a huge impact if the prices stay down, IMHO. The problem is that I don't think they will stay down. Gas prices have dropped right before the last two election cycles and I am no fan of conspiracy theory, but you have to wonder if big oil is not trying to ease the burden on the electorate. Hence come Jan the price will be back up to the mid $3.50 range or more. Just a guess. My feeling has always been that the cost of gas will be whatever the market can bare, hence it will go back up to $4 and stay there.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Filibuster.

Ah, yes. Its been a while since I heard a dramatic reading of Merriam Webster's.