What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

[lookout123]

That is one of the myths the opposition is promoting. The law has not been expanded to allow random sweeps. the new law only comes into effect in the course of investigating a crime or a lawful traffic stop.

Originally Posted by lookout123

That is one of the myths the opposition is promoting. The law has not been expanded to allow random sweeps. the new law only comes into effect in the course of investigating a crime or a lawful traffic stop.

Not according to the attorney for AZ cities.

And the text of the law which has a new definition of trespassing:

Sec. 3. Title 13, chapter 15, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by
39 adding section 13-1509, to read:
40 13-1509. Trespassing by illegal aliens; assessment; exception;
41 classification
42 A. IN ADDITION TO ANY VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW, A PERSON IS GUILTY OF
43 TRESPASSING IF THE PERSON IS BOTH:
44 1. PRESENT ON ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE LAND IN THIS STATE.
45 2. IN VIOLATION OF 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1304(e) OR 1306(a).

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

This goes beyond investigating a crime or a lawful traffic stop (in which cops are already authorized to check for papers).

It is creating a new crime...."trespassing by illegal aliens". Cops could approach anyone on public or private property and hold them if they cannot prove citizenship or legal residency.

[jinx]

After lawful contact is made, a cop is suspicious that a person is illegal. Person says "no, I have papers, just not on me". Person is now considered trespassing and may be held until immigration status is confirmed.

Police can not stop person on the street based solely on immigration status suspicion.

Originally Posted by jinx

After lawful contact is made, a cop is suspicious that a person is illegal. Person says "no, I have papers, just not on me". Person is now considered trespassing and may be held until immigration status is confirmed.

Police can not stop person on the street based solely on immigration status suspicion.

The interpretation I had from the city attorney was that cops can absolutely approach any person on the street under the "trespassing by illegal alien" provision of this law, assuming "reasonable cause" (undefined) and suspicion (undefined) and charge them with trespassing by an alien unless the person can show that he is a citizen or legal resident.

That is now the underlying crime and lawful contact (the cop is investigating possible "trespassing by illegal alien")...no need for a reliance on investigating a separate crime or traffic stop for a separate violation.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Redux

The interpretation I had from the city attorney was that cops can absolutely approach any person on the street under the "trespassing by illegal alien" provision of this law, assuming "reasonable cause" (undefined) and suspicion (undefined) and charge them with trespassing by an alien unless the person can show that he is a citizen or legal resident.

That is now the underlying crime and lawful contact (the cop is investigating possible "trespassing by illegal alien")...no need for a reliance on investigating a separate crime or traffic stop for a separate violation.

I'm sorry, I can't just take your word for it over what is actually written in the law.
If what you are saying were actually the case, it would be a clear 4th amendment violation and not worth the paper its written on.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Redux

This goes beyond investigating a crime or a lawful traffic stop (in which cops are already authorized to check for papers).

They are? Then why aren't the CA cops allowed to check for legal residency, even when they make an arrest?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They are? Then why aren't the CA cops allowed to check for legal residency, even when they make an arrest?

The federal law allows it.

AZ currently does it. CA has chosen not to do so.....blame Arnold.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

The federal law allows it.

AZ currently does it. CA has chosen not to do so.....blame Arnold.

Blame the violent protests by the Hispanic support groups who oppose any kind of control.

[jinx]

Abortion is not mentioned in the constitution. Illegal search and seizure is.

Originally Posted by jinx

Abortion is not mentioned in the constitution. Illegal search and seizure is.

Agreed.

It is not a perfect analogy...but abortion is a protected Constitutional right (within limits).

States often enact laws that they hope are written in such a manner as to stand the test..but suspect might be unconstitutional (but popular), with the intent of getting a federal ruling on exactly how far a state law can go before crossing the legal line.

I'm not suggesting that is the case here, but it is not unheard of.

[ZenGum]

Meanwhile, in 2010 .... an economic boycott of Arizona is cooking up. The first cancellation? The annual conference of the National Immigration Lawyers Association. Yah really.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Meanwhile, in 2010 .... an economic boycott of Arizona is cooking up. The first cancellation? The annual conference of the National Immigration Lawyers Association. Yah really.

Mom's leaving the damn state, and taking her small business and not-inconsiderable retirement dollars with her. She's writing letters to that effect to all her duly elected representatives.

She got a postcard in her mailbox addressed to "resident" that said:
Arizona is for White Christians! GOD AND GUNS!

She can't wait to leave that backwards shithole.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Pie

Mom's leaving the damn state, and taking her small business and not-inconsiderable retirement dollars with her. She's writing letters to that effect to all her duly elected representatives.

She got a postcard in her mailbox addressed to "resident" that said:
Arizona is for White Christians! GOD AND GUNS!

She can't wait to leave that backwards shithole.

Her leaving is good. It makes room for all the bigots who will be rushing to AZ.

[Sheldonrs]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Her leaving is good. It makes room for all the bigots who will be rushing to AZ.

As much as I like living in Scottsdale, AZ and working for MAW, this has gotten me to seriously think about leaving the state.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Pie

Mom's leaving the damn state, and taking her small business and not-inconsiderable retirement dollars with her. She's writing letters to that effect to all her duly elected representatives.

She got a postcard in her mailbox addressed to "resident" that said:
Arizona is for White Christians! GOD AND GUNS!

She can't wait to leave that backwards shithole.

Good for her, Pie.

It's amazing to me that your posts here about your mother's experiences have gone virtually ignored. I guess real life instances, events happening to someone (the mother of someone) we know are not admissible as evidence of how fucked up the whole thing is.

Maybe you're just racist in your unsettled and disgusted feeling that all of this is the wrong way to go. Maybe you're being reactionary, without knowing the facts? Facts, as we must define them here, do not include actual events. Or something.