Minimum wage: $15 NOW!; or 15... eventually

[xoxoxoBruce]

Because the goal is to help low income workers catch up a little, not give the entire 99% a raise.

[Happy Monkey]

Let's get to $15, and see what happens. Then we can give $30 a look.

[Clodfobble]

It seems like this debate ought to diminish over the decades, yet somehow it never does. We've raised the minimum wage before. Employers never like it. But the country has not yet imploded from any of the previous increases. Viable businesses give their employees cost-of-living raises at least every few years.

[Undertoad]

As I read all this, a household of 2 parents, each working full time for McDonalds, has their first child,

By fuckin' god if it ain't the American dream right there.

But you wouldn'ta said nuthin if you ain't seen Lolene when she was takin out the trash liners. Good gawd almighty them polyester shirts were pretty used up after a shift sweatin over the fryer, but she would put a knot in the bottom of that thing, and haul up that bag of cups and shit, and dang if she weren't better'n just a regular line worker no more. She could be... assistant manager.

[Lamplighter]

As I read all this, a household of 2 parents, each working full time for McDonalds,
falls below the poverty line as soon as they have their first child,...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

By fuckin' god if it ain't the American dream right there.

But you wouldn'ta said nuthin if you ain't seen Lolene when she was takin out the trash liners. Good gawd almighty them polyester shirts were pretty used up after a shift sweatin over the fryer, but she would put a knot in the bottom of that thing, and haul up that bag of cups and shit, and dang if she weren't better'n just a regular line worker no more. She could be... assistant manager.

Snob.
Lolene grew up in in a blue/no collar world, lucky if most of the extended family had jobs. She barely finished High School, and has heard of colleges, that's where they build them football teams. She's honest, reliable, hard working, and seems to be pretty smart, but we'll never know because education was always a priority behind food, rent, insurance, taxes, medical bills, etc.

Making minimum wage will guarantee the same for her children and guarantee a steady supply of disposable humans for the 1% to use.

[Undertoad]

Have you guys personally known any McDonald's lifers? I've only ever encountered one person who tried to make that a career. Never encountered a two-earner-per-household version.

What they are is "starter jobs" for the great majority. You have them for a season or two and they teach you about having a job, holding a job, earning money. You don't stay there. You move on and someone else takes that spot and learns those lessons.

You need that sort of job in the society, to learn from, but doing the job itself is not really any great help to society because it's not really *doing* anything much at all. So the last thing you want is people making it a career, because it's a waste of people and a waste of a career.

But what about the poor people, I hear you say. I know the poor people. I have been with them, I have spoken with them, I will be with them tomorrow. All of them eat at McDonalds and a small number of them work there. It would be FAR better for the poor people if their burgers stayed the price they are, and they all had "starter jobs" that taught them skills. But thanks to you guys who think you're doing somebody a favor, and believe in your hearts that you're helping these people, with the deepest of your middle class compassion and the sorriest of your middle class guilt, that's now not going to happen in Seattle. If there are burgers in Seattle, the middle class is going to be flipping them, the middle class is going to be eating them, and the poor people are going to be fucked over once again.

You're aiming for the CEOs and with all your great intentions you just shot your friend in the face. But I know you'll be able to find statistics that show employment went up. Because the ghetto people aren't counted in those numbers.

[glatt]

What are the grocery stores like by you guys? When I was a lad in Maine, the employees, including cashiers, were 75% teenagers. A few adults managed things. Now it's 100% adults. Are grocery store shelf stocker and cashier a couple starter jobs or (not very good) careers?

I feel like they are unionized, but they can't be making much money, even with a union.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Have you guys personally known any McDonald's lifers? I've only ever encountered one person who tried to make that a career. Never encountered a two-earner-per-household version.

I have. Both were "managers", and they had 2 kids. They lived in a blue collar area, without obvious niceties, but I have no idea of their finances.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

What they are is "starter jobs" for the great majority. You have them for a season or two and they teach you about having a job, holding a job, earning money. You don't stay there. You move on and someone else takes that spot and learns those lessons.

You need that sort of job in the society, to learn from, but doing the job itself is not really any great help to society because it's not really *doing* anything much at all. So the last thing you want is people making it a career, because it's a waste of people and a waste of a career.

Tony, half of the world has a lower than average IQ. There are many people who are not equipped mentally, physically, or emotionally to do much more than cook burgers or greet people at Walmart. Should they be penalized for inadequacies for which they are not responsible?

Originally Posted by Undertoad

But what about the poor people, I hear you say. I know the poor people. I have been with them, I have spoken with them, I will be with them tomorrow. All of them eat at McDonalds and a small number of them work there. It would be FAR better for the poor people if their burgers stayed the price they are, and they all had "starter jobs" that taught them skills. But thanks to you guys who think you're doing somebody a favor, and believe in your hearts that you're helping these people, with the deepest of your middle class compassion and the sorriest of your middle class guilt, that's now not going to happen in Seattle. If there are burgers in Seattle, the middle class is going to be flipping them, the middle class is going to be eating them, and the poor people are going to be fucked over once again.

You're aiming for the CEOs and with all your great intentions you just shot your friend in the face. But I know you'll be able to find statistics that show employment went up. Because the ghetto people aren't counted in those numbers.

It's a shame that the CEO won't do the right thing, and pay the workers that are the reason he makes $9.5 million a living wage AND not raise the price for the "ghetto people". But that would mean he'd only make several million dollars a year, and who can live on that?

What is the incentive for a "ghetto person" to take a job for $8/hour, with no benefits, etc.? Now, if that job pays $15/hour, and includes benefits, ghetto person might just to the plunge.

[Undertoad]

It's a shame that the CEO won't do the right thing, and pay the workers that are the reason he makes $9.5 million a living wage AND not raise the price for the "ghetto people". But that would mean he'd only make several million dollars a year, and who can live on that?

If the CEO did his job entirely pro-bono and personally wrote a check to every McDonald's employee at the end of the year, dividing his expected salary evenly to each and every one of them, that check would be for five dollars.

What is the incentive for a "ghetto person" to take a job for $8/hour, with no benefits, etc.? Now, if that job pays $15/hour, and includes benefits, ghetto person might just to the plunge.

Sorry, that job is no longer available to the ghetto person. At $15/hour, it's now viciously targeted by the lower middle class.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I have. Both were "managers", and they had 2 kids. They lived in a blue collar area, without obvious niceties, but I have no idea of their finances.

Easy to get an idea if you really want to know.
FWIW, they are making more than I am in my white collar world.
Imagine that?!?!?

[xoxoxoBruce]

"Starter Jobs" went the way of sword fighting and knickers. There are less jobs than people who want them, so can you reserve slave wage jobs under the guise of preparing teens for the world? What about the others? Well fuck them, they can rob banks or starve, because they can barely survive on a minimum wage job unless someone else is paying the rent and shit.
Hey, that's it, they could band together and share... but that's communism, we can't have that. Let's see, we can't call them a family, they'll want tax breaks and shit. Hmm, I have it, we'll call them a GANG.

[classicman]

People at or below the federal minimum are:

Disproportionately young: 50.4% are ages 16 to 24;
24% are teenagers (ages 16 to 19).
Mostly (77%) white; nearly half are white women.
Largely part-time workers (64% of the total).

Sooooooooo ... 36% are full-time workers
statistically half or 49.6% are OVER 24.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and from the ever unbiased Politifact

Rob Portman says 'about 2 percent of Americans get paid the minimum wage'

[xoxoxoBruce]

Looking at the manufacturing sector.

The Fight For $15 protest movement has gained support recently, as the Democratic Party added a national $15 minimum wage to its platform and presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders introduced legislation that would do this by 2020. An increase of this magnitude will have a much greater reach than the minimum wages we currently see in the U.S., which raises the important question of how a $15 minimum wage would affect manufacturing. The potential for lost jobs is particularly acute given that many manufacturers face global competition. If wages become too high in one place, it's easier for a manufacturer than for, say, a restaurant, to relocate operations. After all, the huge decline in manufacturing employment in previous decades is in part a warning about the unsustainability of above-market wages in a globally competitive environment.

[it]

There is something in the air...

Do you smell it too? It smells so fresh


It smells the perfect time you wanted it in


It smells like I don't need to worry if it washed it's hands


Come here big boy, you know where I want you


Oh yea, you beautiful wave of destruction


Was it good for you? Well I'd light up a smoke but nobody can afford too....