Immigration

[mjohncoady]

Originally Posted by Shocker

All an employer is required to provide for their employees is a safe work environment and a comparable wage that meets the minimum wage.

Not exactly accurate. The term "benefit" refers to all non-wage or salary compensation. Most employers are required to contribute to social security, purchase workers compesation insurance, and contribute to an unemployment fund. These all count as benefits.

An employer can avoid these expenses by entering into a cash arrangement with an employee and this is somewhat common in certain jobs such as housekeeping and lawn/garden work. The problem for the employer, of course, is accounting for the expense -- he cannot very well deduct the salary if it is off-the-books.

Interestingly, and I apologize for digressing here, a great many undocumented immigrants obtain forged documents suitable for employment -- social security card and driver's license for example. The current immigration law, in force since 1986 or so, requires the employer to verify his employee's identity, check the card and one other source of documentation. So, on the face of it, he employs a "legal" person, pays social security, unemployment, and workers compensation on that persons behalf, and books the wage and expenses. All appears above-board. In short, while there are certainly some businesses that avoid benefit expenses by using undocumented employees, many -- maybe even most -- gain no such advantage.

Perhaps the improperly documented workers work for lower wage. I am unaware of anyone attempting to measure wage levels but those who are attempting to measure the problem, estimate some 11 million undocumented persons live here and that 92% of them have jobs. This implies that there are indeed a great many job openings that would go wanting in the absence of these folks. Perhaps we should be reconsidering our process of admitting persons so that we would have a better knowledge of exactly who is here.

[Shocker]

Ok so anyways...back onto topic. I received this in my e-mail today - not really sure if this is a real quote or if it even happened like this, however, I do think that what the substance of the message says is very much correct and could possibly put some perspective on the immigration debate we are having now. This is supposedly a quote, taken from Teddy Roosevelt way back in 1907 about his feelings on immigration.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

-Teddy Roosevelt, 1907

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I don't see you exerting your talents towards something creative like winning the war, Bruce. All your ilk can be indicted on that score.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I don't see you exerting your talents towards something creative like winning the war, Bruce. All your ilk can be indicted on that score.

You know only what I expressed here. That we have done a bad job in Afghanistan which will bite us badly in the near future. And, invading Iraq was a mistake predicated on lies.

However, you have no clue as to what I "do" or even who my "ilk" are. Placing me in one pigeon slot or another doesn't make it so, it just makes your "fer us or agin us" position more ludicrous.

Gee, I hope I haven't offended UG. I'm so afraid he'll pummel me with his rapier wit and patriotic righteousness.

[Undertoad]

xoB's talents most definitely go towards winning the war. Of that I have no doubt.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I fear my doubts are not reduced by that, UT. Elucidate?

[Undertoad]

He builds war machines.

[Shocker]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

He builds war machines.

It would help more if he was a stealthy ninja LOL

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Consider yourself pummeled. At least until we get some detail of the war machines. Tell, tell.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sea Knights, Chinooks, Apache Longbows & V-22.

[Griff]

Of course with the V-22 you could be accused of working for the other side.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Homeland Security?

Yes, this is 20951.

Yes, I have it...G R I F F T O P I A.... got that?

When?

Remember, don't hurt the women or goats.

Thank you, but I feel it's my duty....as an American, Sir.

Heil Bu....ah, er, Goodbye.

@xoxoxoBruce: Say, I've jumped the Chinook from about 9,000 ft. (at or near it's service ceiling). Thanks for the ride up!

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's service ceiling in closer to twice that.

Of course, I misspoke. I should have said that the jump was at or near our service ceiling (approx. 10,500 ft. ) as we had not rigged the aircraft with an oxygen console and we weren't jumping with O2. From other aircraft, I've gotten several 18,500 ft. [22,000 ft. on a good day] jumps in (both HALO and HAHO). I never got the elusive 33,000 ft. jump. Flying around for 30 minutes, while the jumpers pre-breathed pure O2 to purge the nitrogen from their systems, just got too expensive for Uncle Sam.