Torture memos

Sugar...I agree with everything you said.

But I am still not convinced that prosecution of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld et al even if there is compelling evidence that they conspired in the authorization of torture is still in the best public interest.

An example of balancing public interest with criminal prosecution...perhaps a bit far fetched.....

The political and military leaders who led an insurrection against the US called the Civil War.

Would the public interest have been served by the execution of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee, and the millions of Confederate foot solders ?

They were all given amnesty, I believe, because it was more in the public interest to "move ahead" then prosecute there individuals for treason. There was also a provision in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution enacted as part of the post-Civil War amnesty that they could never engage in government service again:

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disabilit

[sugarpop]

Who said anything about executing them? throw their asses in prison for a few years. Especially Cheney, with his big mouth badmouthing the president, and saying how is he is making the country less safe. NO you asshole, YOU made the country less safe by supplying al qeada with all-time high recruitment because of your actions.

Also, how do you explain to the rest of the world our inabilty to prosecute members of OUR government for things we would demand others be prosecuted for? If Iran or North Korea end up waterboarding the female journalists they have in custody, we would probably go to war over it. We have a double standard in this country when it comes to our own actions, versus the same actions by other countries.

[classicman]

She is being used as a pawn in a political game. See it for what it is - PLEASE.

Originally Posted by classicman

She is being used as a pawn in a political game. See it for what it is - PLEASE.

Bullshit.

It is not a political game to expect the president/vice/president/attorney general/sec of defense to abide by their constitutional oath and uphold the law....not conspire to break the law.

The bastards all deserve to be prosecuted IF there is compelling evidence that they conspired to circumvent US laws and treaty obligations....and without pre-judging, it is looking more and more like that evidence is out there.

My only point is that I believe such prosecution might be counter-productive.

Another example.....Unlike Nixon, who when it was clear he broke the law and engaged in a criminal conspiracy, had maybe 10 people in the country who stood behind him....Cheney (probably more than Bush/Rumseld) has tens of millions of wingnuts who would still believe he did nothing wrong despite the facts and IMO, could potentially create such a destructive and disruptive environment that the country would suffer.

Sugar:
In terms of explaining to the rest of the world, Obama has made it clear to allies and adversaries alike that such practices are no longer the policy of the US....he authorized closing Gitmo, he issued an EO ending the authorization for such interrogation techniques, and restored the US commitment to the law and treaty obligations.

The release of the memos is further reaffirmation...by disclosing our illegal acts to the world and saying NO MORE.

[classicman]

Although I agree with your post, it has nothing to do with the intentions of Ahmajinidad.

Originally Posted by classicman

Although I agree with your post, it has nothing to do with the intentions of Ahmajinidad.

Gotcha! My bad..I read sugar as the pawn.

Taking back the bullshit and agreeing about the pawn.

[classicman]

lol - I thought at first I posted it in the wrong thread. (re:Harman)

re: the torture... I dunno - I don't want anyone to endure that kind of shit, but they attacked us and that was a time when many were waiting for the next attack. Its difficult to know what really was going on "behind the scenes". The left wants to hang them by the balls and the right wants to thank them. I'm just glad I'm not sitting in the hot seat on this one.
I don't see the benefit of releasing this info, other than politically. Now its gonna drag on forever. I think Obama may have just released a huge albatross that will hang around the neck of the nation for a long time.
Much of what was done was not what I consider torture, some was.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by classicman

I think Obama may have just released a huge albatross that will hang around the neck of the nation for a long time.

Except that everyone in the world knew what was going on. If the information hadn't been released, people would have been left guessing for the next decade. Also, some of the techniques people imagined were not done. This is hard to prove unless you can point to what was done.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Except that everyone in the world knew what was going on.
If the information hadn't been released, people would have been left guessing for the next decade.

Not sure I'm reading that correctly - It seems like a contradiction.

They knew or they would be left guessing?

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by classicman

Not sure I'm reading that correctly - It seems like a contradiction.

They knew or they would be left guessing?

They knew that there was torture, but left guessing as to its limits. By admitting to the lower level torture, the administration has gained enough credibility to claim that what was released was the full extent of the torture and that more aggressive methods were not employed.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

She is being used as a pawn in a political game. See it for what it is - PLEASE.

Who is "she?"

[sugarpop]

nvm. I see you meant Harmon.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by richlevy

They knew that there was torture, but left guessing as to its limits. By admitting to the lower level torture, the administration has gained enough credibility to claim that what was released was the full extent of the torture and that more aggressive methods were not employed.

Gotcha - That's if "they" believe us.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Redux

Sugar:
In terms of explaining to the rest of the world, Obama has made it clear to allies and adversaries alike that such practices are no longer the policy of the US....he authorized closing Gitmo, he issued an EO ending the authorization for such interrogation techniques, and restored the US commitment to the law and treaty obligations.

The release of the memos is further reaffirmation...by disclosing our illegal acts to the world and saying NO MORE.

Redux, the only problem with that, is next time some country does something we don't like, we will apply that double standard again and demand people be held accountable. You get my point, right?

[sugarpop]

According to the source the administration used to justify sleep deprivation, here is the rebuttal FROM that source...

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsid...the-memos.html