The Federal Government Has No Immigration Powers

[Cicero]

"looter mentality".......I like that. That's true sometimes. Not all the time. But definately sometimes...

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

As I stated earlier, prisons don't keep track of the number of undocumented immigrants. They only keep track of non-citizens who have committed crimes. While I contend that over half of these crimes are committed by those who are here with papers, we can divide by half the number you posted.

This means in all U.S. Prisons there were 38,500 undocumented immigrants in all of America's prisons.

The problem with your thinking is that you pulle the number 38,500 out of your ass. You can't support your numbers with real data.

This study from NY completely puts your numbers to shame. 36% were illegal.

http://www.docs.state.ny.us/Research...rn_Inmates.pdf

[fargon]

Damn Radar who you think you are TW?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

Do they keep any stats on how many get under the table jobs and send the money home versus how many join gangs and sell drugs?

Jinx, about half way down. The money trail with refernces for the data:

http://immigrationcounters.com/datasource.html

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Radar

Let's subtract the 38,500 undocumented immigrants from this number to get 2,220,483. The U.S. Population is 301,139,947. Subtract 20 million for undocumented immigrants so you have 281,139,947. This means we have 789 American citizens per 1000 in the population who are criminals. There are 193 undocumented immigrants per 1000 in the population of undocumented immigrants who are criminals.

I doubt that 78.9% of the population are criminals - just sayin.....

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar
Let's subtract the 38,500 undocumented immigrants from this number to get 2,220,483. The U.S. Population is 301,139,947. Subtract 20 million for undocumented immigrants so you have 281,139,947. This means we have 789 American citizens per 1000 in the population who are criminals. There are 193 undocumented immigrants per 1000 in the population of undocumented immigrants who are criminals.

Originally Posted by classicman

I doubt that 78.9% of the population are criminals - just sayin.....

Yea, he has a problem with math.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Does not change the fact that illegal aliens cost this country billions more than they contribute.

Like most things you post, that is the exact opposite of the truth. Undocumented immigrants contribute BILLIONS more in taxes than they cost us in services.

They are not costing American tax payers a single penny. They are a net gain to the economy and the tax base. And no, the prison system does not keep stats of legal vs. illegal immigrants. The only classify non-citizens (both documented and undocumented) as "criminal aliens"

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Yea, he has a problem with math.

No, just missing a couple of zeros. It's per hundred thousand.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The problem with your thinking is that you pulle the number 38,500 out of your ass. You can't support your numbers with real data.

This study from NY completely puts your numbers to shame. 36% were illegal.

http://www.docs.state.ny.us/Research...rn_Inmates.pdf

I used national statistics, not state statistics numbnuts.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

Like most things you post, that is the exact opposite of the truth. Undocumented immigrants contribute BILLIONS more in taxes than they cost us in services.

They are not costing American tax payers a single penny. They are a net gain to the economy and the tax base. And no, the prison system does not keep stats of legal vs. illegal immigrants. The only classify non-citizens (both documented and undocumented) as "criminal aliens"

Some illegal aliens contribute. Most do not.

[Cicero]

Most of the ones that used to work where I worked in the past aren't contributing because they can't. Their only documents are fake. This means that they got a hold of someone's legitimate record and are paying in under someone elses tax id. Or what they are giving is completely fake and giving out a random number. Most of them aren't dumb enough to do that. Then there are the ones working under the table. This makes statistics for the documented workers null and void. I used to go to work knowing that I didn't know any of the staffs real names. I am glad they weren't all the same name because that would have sucked.

I find working under an assumed name and number to be highly criminal because that is how I was raised. I can't tell you how much shit has been pulled that I have seen, but it's a lot. If we turned the tables and I started to do any of that, the authorities would be all over my ass for fraud. Being undocumented forces people to do criminal acts to try to be practical and get jobs, cars etc...

That puts people like me that have a responsibility to maintain the books when you have a boss with this kind of hiring practice in place, at odds. And you have several moral questions for yourself when you go home at night, after you find out exactly what you have been doing.

Gathering statistics using documents that are faked or don't exist is crazy-making. I really liked some of the people that were on my team that were "documented". Heh but after being there for awhile I asked and "documented" was true. Just not the whole truth. Sure I have documents. Not mine..but I have them. Well fuc**. Lots of the documented paid for them...not sure where or how.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Some illegal aliens contribute. Most do not.

Most of them work and they buy things. Most do not collect any kind of public assistance. Whatever the number is of those who contribute, it amounts to billions and billions more paid in taxes than they use in services.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Most of the ones that used to work where I worked in the past aren't contributing because they can't. Their only documents are fake. This means that they got a hold of someone's legitimate record and are paying in under someone elses tax id. Or what they are giving is completely fake and giving out a random number. Most of them aren't dumb enough to do that. Then there are the ones working under the table. This makes statistics for the documented workers null and void. I used to go to work knowing that I didn't know any of the staffs real names. I am glad they weren't all the same name because that would have sucked.

I find working under an assumed name and number to be highly criminal because that is how I was raised. I can't tell you how much shit has been pulled that I have seen, but it's a lot. If we turned the tables and I started to do any of that, the authorities would be all over my ass for fraud. Being undocumented forces people to do criminal acts to try to be practical and get jobs, cars etc...

That puts people like me that have a responsibility to maintain the books when you have a boss with this kind of hiring practice in place, at odds. And you have several moral questions for yourself when you go home at night, after you find out exactly what you have been doing.

Gathering statistics using documents that are faked or don't exist is crazy-making. I really liked some of the people that were on my team that were "documented". Heh but after being there for awhile I asked and "documented" was true. Just not the whole truth. Sure I have documents. Not mine..but I have them. Well fuc**. Lots of the documented paid for them...not sure where or how.

It doesn't matter if they are contributing to the tax base under someone else's social security #. They pay income taxes into the system and they rarely if ever collect from any social programs (other than public education...which they help pay for). Those taxes are used just like anyone who is a natural born citizen, or a documented immigrant. These people never collect from social security either, yet they pay billions into it.

Working under an assumed name or number is most certainly not criminal. If you believe it to be, you must have been raise poorly.

I have a right to work anonymously. I have a right to travel anonymously. If I want to call myself Uncle Sam and work for lemonade rather than money, or I want to work for cash, I have a right to do so and no other person or government has any right to any of what I've earned.

Unlike you, I was raised to know that stealing what others earn is wrong. Income taxes are theft.

[Cicero]

It's funny that you are all about being patriotic, and you still feel defrauding the government overtly, thereby defrauding the state, and your co-workers, and new country is ok.

As long as someone is paying in, the criminal act isn't criminal? I'm done talking to you. You are a completely illogical nut-bag.

Using someone elses name for documentation is criminal no matter how you slice it, in this country. Using their designated number is also criminal.

You are starting to seem like an advocate of criminality, and fraud, more than just an insane asshole. I have met a lot of undocumented advocates..you are the worst however, because you don't give a shit about breaking the systems in place or the law.
I really can't even entertain a flame war with someone that is so far out there.

Get your metal hat on as I think the aliens have melted your brain. Too insane for me. I'm out.

[classicman]

I'm with Cic on this one - but my parting shot is on this statement

Originally Posted by radar

It doesn't matter if they are contributing to the tax base under someone else's social security #.

Not if they work under the table...