Who does homosexuality hurt?

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

So what would you say then to my grandmother who divorced my grandfather because he was an alcoholic? She tried to stick it out and support his efforts to get sober, but in the end she couldn't take any more and gave him ultimatum: me and the kids or alcohol. He chose to keep drinking and she left. Was she in the wrong for ending her support? He was addicted to alcohol and could not "act any other way and be a happy fulfilled person". Should she have been infinitely tolerant and accepting of his addiction because that's who he was? Supporting him even though he did horrible things that alcoholics tend to do and chose not to seriously change his lifestyle?

Or how about this: my parents paid for my brother's university education. He was expelled for failing 3 semesters and hid this fact from my parents until the day before we were planning on driving down for the graduation ceremonies. My parents were understandably furious at him for lying to them and deceiving them, wasting so much of their time, money, emotional and academic support on someone who didn't care enough to go to class. This was 2 almost two years ago and now he works temp agency jobs in an economically depressed area and is unwilling to move because of his friends in the area. Should my parents now be willing to give him all that support they once gave if he started taking classes again? After he lied, deceived, and took advantage of their trust and support before? Why should we, his family, go that extra mile if he is unwilling to uphold his end of the bargain and not be lazy?

There are limitations to what people can tolerate and should be expected to tolerate, just as there are limitations to how much support one family members needs to extend to another depending upon the situation.

No, I am still talking about lifestyle choice in the instance of being homosexual. Not being an idiot and using people. "Any way necessary" sometimes means a kick in the ass, or an ultimatum, it can be defined and modified according to the specific people and needs. Again though, parent's have a responsibility to try to help their children, can't just walk away and refuse. That does NOT mean giving them money for nothing ect ect. Calling them on their birthday, asking them over for Christmas (at least sending them a card) ect ect, those are means of emotional support.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

Which is what I was arguing mainly with you. That should person's family pull their support emotional, financial, educational, etc. , especially your parents because they have responsibility to you, .

Total and utter bull shit.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Really? You don't eat their food. They don't give you money or make you pay rent? Life is not free. All adults living in the house have a responsiblity to contribute. Hey maybe you could take on some responsibility around the house and work off your stay.

A: SG being SG, I sincerely doubt that she is just sponging off of her parents. She doesn't seem the type. She has a job, so obviously she's paying for herself.

B: She had no where to live basically after her roommate became such an ass to live with. She never said her parents were letting her live there free. She specifically said "took her in" that is not the same thing. I don't know if you have ever tried to find a roommate, or affordable housing on your own, but if you have then you know its a bitch. Therefore, she probably had no where else she could reasonably afford. Her parents "took her in" meaning they gave her a good place to stay at a price that is affordable to her. I know it took months of persuading/begging/cajoling to convince my parents to let me back, even though I was offering rent from the start.

[classicman]

So basically what you are saying is that you want your parents to support your homosexuality? Is that it? This has virtually nothing to do with college or financial support at all?

Perhaps I'm the only one who missed that :shrug: wouldn't be the first time.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by classicman

So basically what you are saying is that you want your parents to support your homosexuality? Is that it? This has virtually nothing to do with college or financial support at all?

Perhaps I'm the only one who missed that :shrug: wouldn't be the first time.

I'm not homosexual, never said I was. I don't need to tell my parents' my sexual orientation because I haven't had a significant female partner, I don't plan on telling them unless I do. My parents already support me less for lifestyle choices that they disagree with based on their religious beliefs. I am saying that parents should not pull support from their children because of the child's choice in lifestyle (I.E. homosexuality or different religion.) They can not agree with it, but they should show their child ALL of their love and try to understand. Most parents though are often strong-headed, close minded and believe that they always know best. That is not true, parents do not always know best. Since they choose not to even try to understand the child's particular peculiarities, they instead pull support, or give less.

Originally Posted by classicman

Yup, in fact I just read every one from this thread. Sounds like she is jealous of her older brother or pissed that he got to move back in and now she doesn't. Did her parents know beforehand that she wanted to? I mean before her brother? It seems that moving back in with them is an issue. That, to me would fall under financial support.

I don't think you did or you would know that: yes I did ask, and get approval in MARCH with my parents to move back. My brother asked in OCTOBER.
I specifically said it in post 107: "My parents have now let him move back twice w/o any conditions. I was supposed to move back (finalized it in mar with them), and instead they let him come back(in Oct he decided to get a car instead a of a house loan), therefore I can't."

This was not defined though. Leaves the reader to assume.

What wasn't defined? Types of support? Because, yes, I have had explained it several times, and give several examples. I have also stated a few examples of both my sister and brother getting benefits I didn't. Here is another one if you want: My parent's have always fully supported my sister in her college endeavors(not financially, they don't have the money to do that, but they fully encourage her), when they tell me its a waste for me to go. My sister only graduated High School 6seats higher than I did, so its not that I show a lack of academic acuity. Sister didn't decide what she was goin to college for until 2nd semester senior year. I knew what I wanted to go for up until 2nd semester senior year, their lack of encouragement probably contributed to my change of mind. Turns out, no matter what else I choode, they only have negative things to say about that as well.

Again stressing financial support, yet repeatedly stating that is not what she is referring to.

Like I said Money doesn't equal love. I'm saying that when I NEED financial support, I don't get it, whereas my siblings do. I have done nothing worse than my older brother (I will say I don't mind my sister getting more, she is a saint) and yet he gets more. I have stated non-financial reasons, like them not letting me move back home. Yes its to save me money, but it wouldn't cost them (I have already said I'm paying rent). Them not supporting my want to go to college is another non-financial example I've cited. The financial reasons are just the more tangible and therefore easier to explain. Most of my issues with my parents is lack of financial because they don't believe I deserve it, which to me shows a lack of emotional support.

This is what they are not doing? Well that begs a number of questions - Does she see them on Christmas and/or her birthday? Is this common practice in their family? Do they have the money? Do they consider cards and such a waste? I don't know these people at all or what their lives are like. I'm only basing my opinions on one side and although I feel bad for her that she is not happy, there is just too much information missing for me to draw any useful conclusions at all.

MTP, I am very sorry for your situation. I wish it were different and you could all get what you want/need from each other.

No, that I never said they were/weren't doing any of those things. Those were just examples. You read into the wrong things classic.

[classicman]

ok - sorry MTP, I guess I just don't get it. I'm sorry that your parents are being assholes. Parents tend to do that from time to time. Its just in my experience, they are typically trying to do it for a reason or reasons unknown or not understood by the child. I guess yours are just treating you differently for some unknown reason.

FWIW, My oldest brother is the golden child - he can do no wrong. I know that he is my fathers favorite and he treats him differently than he treats the rest of us, especially me. That has no bearing on the fact that my father still loves me. I was the youngest and mostly all the money for college was gone when it was my turn. I had to pay for it myself.

Sorry about your situation. Hope things improve for all of you.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

Like I said Money doesn't equal love.

Absolutely. Which is why if you don't get any from your parents does not mean they love you less, regardless of you choices in life, gay, straight, or whatever....

[DanaC]

Christ on a bike. This isn't so difficult to understand. MTP wants her parents to support her without her having to be something she's not in order to gain that support. She wants the same level of support and emotional sustenance and sensitivity that her siblings apparently get.

It's not a lot to ask. And I really cannot believe how many times MTP has had to say she wasn't referring to money in this thread.

[classicman]

I'm still not sure though what she wants from them. What does "support" mean? Perhaps she is seeing them more as the people they are and realizing they are not who she thought they were. I dunno what she really wants and maybe they don't either. Does she want a hug every time she comes home? Does she want to chitchat with them? It all seems really unclear to me. Things change when a child moves out - perhaps she should try that again. Most parents do NOT treat all their children the same as their children are different and have different needs.

[DanaC]

Have you even read her posts?


[eta] it's not so unusual in families with multiple children for one of those children to end up copping for all the shit and being treated very differently from the others. Often there's no obvious reason why that child gets the thin end. But it happens. Families aren't always such cosy places. Parents sometimes fail their children in fundamental and basic ways, even as they do right by them in others. The child that finds themself in that less than cozy position has every right to feel anger.

Most parents do NOT treat all their children the same as their children are different and have different needs.

It's not about treating them the same in every way or giving them the same things: it's about showing them the same level of regard and concern. It's about giving them equal weight in your mind, and taking account of all of their needs. The examples MTP give are clearly just examples where it's made obvious by the similarity of their needs on those occasions, that equal weight does not appear to have been given to all siblings.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by DanaC

[eta]It's not about treating them the same in every way or giving them the same things: it's about showing them the same level of regard and concern. It's about giving them equal weight in your mind, and taking account of all of their needs. The examples MTP give are clearly just examples where it's made obvious by the similarity of their needs on those occasions, that equal weight does not appear to have been given to all siblings.

Perhaps, that is all her opinion, I understand, but perhaps her parents don't feel the same way as she does.

[jinx]

Hey classic, did you miss the question I asked you in post #87 or...?

[classicman]

Yup, in fact I just read every one from this thread. Sounds like she is jealous of her older brother or pissed that he got to move back in and now she doesn't. Did her parents know beforehand that she wanted to? I mean before her brother? It seems that moving back in with them is an issue. That, to me would fall under financial support.

Originally Posted by mtp

I am looking for the support that they clearly give my older brother and sister, and do not give me.

This was not defined though. Leaves the reader to assume.

Originally Posted by mtp

He "got away with" wrecking 2 cars by pulling stupid stunts, living with a woman out of wedlock, sleeping around (before he got married), smoking cigarettes, smoking weed (in the house), underage drinking, drinking and driving....
Point is, I've done none of those things, except living with my partner out of wedlock. But the fact that they give them financial support I don't get, shows something is lacking

Again stressing financial support, yet repeatedly stating that is not what she is referring to.

Originally Posted by mtp

Calling them on their birthday, asking them over for Christmas (at least sending them a card) ect ect, those are means of emotional support.

This is what they are not doing? Well that begs a number of questions - Does she see them on Christmas and/or her birthday? Is this common practice in their family? Do they have the money? Do they consider cards and such a waste? I don't know these people at all or what their lives are like. I'm only basing my opinions on one side and although I feel bad for her that she is not happy, there is just too much information missing for me to draw any useful conclusions at all.

MTP, I am very sorry for your situation. I wish it were different and you could all get what you want/need from each other.

[DanaC]

Sorry classic, I went back and added a bunch via an ETA. Hadn't intended it to turn into a whole other post :P

[classicman]

LOL - me too - I added way more than you :p