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Old 11-16-2009, 06:44 PM   #106
Redux
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Look back at the Gingrich's "Contract with America" that propelled the Republicans to the majority in 1994.....he purposefully ignored the most divisive issues of abortion, gay rights, gun control, immigration reform, etc. Conservative, but also moderate. The most potentially divisive issue in the document was welfare reform.

http://www.house.gov/house/Contract/CONTRACT.html

IMO, based on Congressional election results from 06 through the most recent, the Republican social conservative base which now dominates the party has become much more insistent (than the party was in 1994) that candidates tow the line on these issues and not just fiscal or regulatory issues, in order to receive a stamp of approval.

There is a serious culture clash at work within the Republican party. Gingrich recognizes this trend as do other Republican leaders, but the issue they face is how to deal with it in in a manner that will mollify the extremists (like the Palinistas) and, at the same time, attract moderate Republicans and Independents and expand the tent.

Last edited by Redux; 11-16-2009 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:36 PM   #107
Urbane Guerrilla
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Government ownership -- regardless of reluctance or pretended reluctance -- of the means of production is a feature of what political system?

A political party that determinedly avoids either ownership of the means of production or determining by fiat the salary of anyone in production is a party that is far from socialist. Obama's embrace of this, by contrast, says "socialist" in sufficiently large letters to attract not only the attention of the Libertarians but of Middle America in general. Middle America is going to TEA parties to raise hell about it.

The presence of avowed Communists in the Obama Administration also declares a push for socialism, and the even greater presence of people who inveigh elaborately against capitalism and all its works declares the push even more strongly. Those people don't believe in capitalism, but clearly prefer something... other. Funnily enough, it's also all the same "other." When it's non-capitalist, you gotta compare them against the properties of fascism-socialism-communism, and you find sufficient match points to draw the correct conclusion. The Administration is Socialist-Democrat, and Redux supports the heck out of this pack of economic illiterates, denying until his last breath their socialism. They are shown as socialists in their own words, Redux; words you apparently don't read. We decline to run off the cliff with you, Redux -- a sign we're bright.
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:22 AM   #108
Redux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post
Government ownership -- regardless of reluctance or pretended reluctance -- of the means of production is a feature of what political system?

A political party that determinedly avoids either ownership of the means of production or determining by fiat the salary of anyone in production is a party that is far from socialist. Obama's embrace of this, by contrast, says "socialist" in sufficiently large letters to attract not only the attention of the Libertarians but of Middle America in general. Middle America is going to TEA parties to raise hell about it.

The presence of avowed Communists in the Obama Administration also declares a push for socialism, and the even greater presence of people who inveigh elaborately against capitalism and all its works declares the push even more strongly. Those people don't believe in capitalism, but clearly prefer something... other. Funnily enough, it's also all the same "other." When it's non-capitalist, you gotta compare them against the properties of fascism-socialism-communism, and you find sufficient match points to draw the correct conclusion. The Administration is Socialist-Democrat, and Redux supports the heck out of this pack of economic illiterates, denying until his last breath their socialism. They are shown as socialists in their own words, Redux; words you apparently don't read. We decline to run off the cliff with you, Redux -- a sign we're bright.
Socialism is government take over and ownership of the means of production (as well as the natural resources) for the benefit of the workers....permanently.

Short term government initiatives to bail out banks/financial services or even the auto industry is for the purpose of protecting a teetering economy, with the goal of strengtheing the capitalistic private sector for the longer term.

Socialists in the administration? If anything, most of the economic/financial advisors in the administration are right out of Wall Street.

You are stretching the concept of socialism as far as you possibly can, and beyond any reasonable standard, in an attempt to support the baseless comparison to Obama policies.

That dog don t hunt except in extreme tea bag country.

Last edited by Redux; 11-26-2009 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:04 PM   #109
Undertoad
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During the Bush administration we were on the "road to fascism". It's a ridiculous form of slippery slope argument.
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