source code

xoxoxoBruce · 09-12-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

MIAMI - Timothy Muldowny's lawyers decided on an unconventional approach to fight his drunken driving case: They sought computer programming information for the Intoxilyzer alcohol breath analysis machine to see whether his test was accurate.

Their strategy paid off.

The company that makes the Intoxilyzer refused to reveal the computer source code for its machine because it was a trade secret. A county judge tossed out Muldowny's alcohol breath test — a crucial piece of evidence in a DUI case — and the ruling was upheld by an appeals court in 2004.

Since then, DUI suspects in Florida, New York, Nebraska and elsewhere have mounted similar challenges. Many have won or have had their DUI charges reduced to lesser offenses. The strategy could affect thousands of the roughly 1.5 million DUI arrests made each year in the United States, defense lawyers say.

more

It seems this is getting a lot of use around the country and the courts are going both ways with it. It's caused enough confusion the the legislators are proposing changes in the law.

Flint · 09-12-2007, 02:01 PM

Quick! How can we capitalize on the loophole?!

BigV · 09-12-2007, 02:15 PM

Substitute "electronic voting machine" for "Intoxilyzer".

Still think it's a loophole?

Certainly you're familiar with Easter Eggs, or a "boss key". Why couldn't there be some sequence of events, that produces a result that deviates from "normal" operation? This happens ALL the time in programming situations. There is an inherent need to have a meta frame of reference in programming situations. Verifying the source code is an excellent way (perhaps excessively thoroughly) of determining if the software is "fair".

SteveDallas · 09-12-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Quick! How can we capitalize on the loophole?!

You could develop your own breathalyzer from scratch and open-source the firmware code, then market it to law enforcement.

I'm sure between the manufacturers, the police, and the legislators, this will be covered up fairly quickly. There must be some way to demonstrate the accuracy of an analyzer that will be acceptable in court.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-12-2007, 07:40 PM

Sure Steve, some legislatures are moving that way but it remains to be seen if they can do it in a manner that will hold up to a constitutional challenge.
Also there is another argument:

Quote:

FDLE officials say that even if the state had access to the source code it would not necessary to test the validity of the breath results. Laura Barfield, alcohol testing program manager at FDLE, said each of the 408 Intoxilyzer 5000s used in Florida — soon to be replaced by the 8000 model — are regularly run through painstaking tests at the state and local levels.

lumberjim · 09-12-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

MIAMI - Timothy Muldowny's lawyers decided on an unconventional approach to fight his drunken driving case: They sought computer programming information for the Intoxilyzer alcohol breath analysis machine to see whether his test was accurate.

Their strategy paid off.

The company that makes the Intoxilyzer refused to reveal the computer source code for its machine because it was a trade secret. A county judge tossed out Muldowny's alcohol breath test — a crucial piece of evidence in a DUI case — and the ruling was upheld by an appeals court in 2004.

Since then, DUI suspects in Florida, New York, Nebraska and elsewhere have mounted similar challenges. Many have won or have had their DUI charges reduced to lesser offenses. The strategy could affect thousands of the roughly 1.5 million DUI arrests made each year in the United States, defense lawyers say.

effect. not affect.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-12-2007, 10:59 PM

Huh?

lumberjim · 09-13-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

The strategy could affect thousands

grammar nazziing your quote. not that you wrote it. just channeling dar512.

Shawnee123 · 09-13-2007, 11:40 AM

No, it's affect, in this case.

Rexmons · 09-13-2007, 12:47 PM

i think any software used to help convict someone in the court system should have open source code, mandatory.

Clodfobble · 09-13-2007, 01:00 PM

Yeah LJ, Shawnee's right, affect is the verb, effect is the noun.

Except in the very rare case where effect is also a verb meaning "to put into effect" rather than "to alter;" i.e., to effect change.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-13-2007, 02:59 PM

That's what I thought.

glatt · 09-13-2007, 03:17 PM

I thought so too, but LJ made me question myself. Cock.

Perry Winkle · 09-13-2007, 03:59 PM

The distinction between affect and effect is disappearing from modern English...

dar512 · 09-18-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

grammar nazziing your quote. not that you wrote it. just channeling dar512.

Hey! I've never been a grammar nazi......here.....much.

Plus, I'm pretty sure the original is correct.

09-12-2007, 02:01 PM	#2
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Quick! How can we capitalize on the loophole?! __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

09-12-2007, 02:15 PM	#3
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Substitute "electronic voting machine" for "Intoxilyzer". Still think it's a loophole? Certainly you're familiar with Easter Eggs, or a "boss key". Why couldn't there be some sequence of events, that produces a result that deviates from "normal" operation? This happens ALL the time in programming situations. There is an inherent need to have a meta frame of reference in programming situations. Verifying the source code is an excellent way (perhaps excessively thoroughly) of determining if the software is "fair". __________________ Be Just and Fear Not. Last edited by BigV; 09-12-2007 at 02:25 PM.

09-12-2007, 10:59 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Huh? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-13-2007, 11:40 AM	#9
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	No, it's affect, in this case. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

09-13-2007, 12:47 PM	#10
Rexmons - Kavkaz United - Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 613	i think any software used to help convict someone in the court system should have open source code, mandatory. __________________ "Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me..."

09-13-2007, 01:00 PM	#11
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Yeah LJ, Shawnee's right, affect is the verb, effect is the noun. Except in the very rare case where effect is also a verb meaning "to put into effect" rather than "to alter;" i.e., to effect change.

09-13-2007, 02:59 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	That's what I thought. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-13-2007, 03:17 PM	#13
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I thought so too, but LJ made me question myself. Cock.

09-13-2007, 03:59 PM	#14
Perry Winkle Esnohplad Semaj Ton Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: A little south of sanity Posts: 2,259	The distinction between affect and effect is disappearing from modern English...

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