Scare yourself

[DanaC]

Jane as usual making a lot of sense

[jaguar]

There is a difference between proud and not ashamed. I couldn't give a damn where I come from but I don't expect to be made to feel responsable for some vague attachment to something that happened in the past.

[jane_says]

On that, you and I agree.

[jane_says]

I gotcha.

It just seems that in 2004, it's irrelevent WHY anyone hated any other group of people three or four generations ago. Any thinking person should just plain ol' "know better". My dad found papers in his parents' house when his mom died, wills and things, which he saved for whatever historical value they might have. I found it completely shocking to read sentences like "I bequeath to my son John, Nigger Jim, a strapping buck of 26 years..." It just seemed completely foreign to me. I have no more connection to those people, or their lives, than I do to the Pope. What I'm saying is I was just as likely to be born to the family I have as I was to have been born into Russian royalty or a family of bushmen in Africa - I don't see any room for pride there; it's all accidental.

That said, I do enjoy reading those papers, but with no more interest than I would if it were someone else's ancestors. I don't feel pride that my dad's family owned slaves, or that my mother's family were German Nazis. I don't feel shame, either, because it had nothing to do with me. I could have as easily been Nigger Jim's daughter, or gassed in one of Hitler's tyrades.

[jane_says]

Aww, Dana! You're so sweet.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I claim to not be a racist, but I suppose it's a matter of how someone define's it. I do, however, resent anyone treating me like the enemy when I've done nothing to them, indeed, I don't even know them.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I claim to not be a racist, but I suppose it's a matter of how someone define's it. I do, however, resent anyone treating me like the enemy when I've done nothing to them, indeed, I don't even know them.

Just as I hate being profiled based on skin color and others' behavior.

So, how do I change their minds?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

Just as I hate being profiled based on skin color and others' behavior.

So, how do I change their minds?

Do they say so or do you perceive their feelings? Do you assume anyone that's rude is racist?
I'm curious because I can't imagine many people openly stating they don't like you because your black. Also does in happen more when you're alone? With other black people? With Syc?

[slang]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

........treating me like the enemy........

That's pretty strong language there mister. You trying to start something??

[jane_says]

Amen! Much the same that I resent anyone treating an entire group of people like the enemy when they're done nothing to us. When they do it only to you, it's Brucism. When we do it to a whole group of people, it's racism.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Do you absolutely, positively. cross your heart and hope to die, stick your finger in your eye, promise not to say, “Why didn’t they do more?” when the next one goes down?

[jane_says]

You can't change their minds. That's the unfortunate part. And you know, the real issue is that it's not up to you to have to change them. No one should have to cajole or beg to be treated like a regular Joe(sephine).

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by jane_says

You can't change their minds. That's the unfortunate part. And you know, the real issue is that it's not up to you to have to change them. No one should have to cajole or beg to be treated like a regular Joe(sephine).

No one is "begging" or otherwise.

Then I guess we continue as we are.

[lumberjim]

the core of the problem with racism is that it begets racism.

[wolf]

My issue runs more along the lines of the fact that there is a clear double standard ... pride is permitted, unless it's "white." One can be proud to be black, queer, latino/a, native american, pagan, asian, etc. without penalty ... but white pride is automatically equated with racism. White guy kicks the shit out of a black guy and it's a hate crime. Black males torture, rape, and kill four or five white young adults specifically because they are white and it's not.

An equally wrong double standard exists between behavior that I, as a female, can get away with, that a male would get reprimanded, fired, or criminallly charged for engaging in in the workplace.

If we're going to be fair about things, lets be fair.