Finding the Devil in New Orleans

[wolf]

Okay, so like where is the Weekly World News Cover with the Devil's Face in the approaching storm? Isn't that what this thread is about?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by wolf

Okay, so like where is the Weekly World News Cover with the Devil's Face in the approaching storm? Isn't that what this thread is about?

That's what I thought too when I first clicked on the thread.

[chronos]

TW,
One thing I have a bit of an issue with is the complaint that the city has not been engineered to withstand the sort of storm that has hit it now and that it's the fault of the local goverment for not making sure the city could deal with this. This is an easy flaw to target and rail against, but in all honesty what could really be expected?
I've been a consultant for years and I've gone into hundreds of environments where I've been stunned that they still run with how badly they've been engineered and patched together. At first I blamed the management for not authorizing the efforts needed to fix everything. I've since learned that it is so easy to come in after the fact and say how things SHOULD have been done to deal with the current situation. This view doesn't take into account the growth and demands every step along the way. People make the best decisions they can with the information AND funding they have. As they grow to meet larger demands they add things piecemeal which adds to the hodgepodge nature of the environment.
Consider that New Orleans has been around for over 100 years and over that period the population has exploded. The city used to be above water. By the time things got out of hand and the city in jeapordy, it was too expensive and politically impossible to change things. As private citizens we get PISSED at the gov when they tell us we have to sacrifice our personal situation for the greater good. Would you sacrifice your home because the gov said they needed to make a better drainage system? Would you let them double your taxes and put up with 10-15 years of major construction (a la Boston) so that you were better prepared for a 100 or 1000 year storm? If you say yes, I believe you are in the minority. Officials that suggested charging the taxes needed to do what needed to be done wouldn't get elected. We, as american citizens, vote for officials that make our INDIVIDUAL lives better not those that protect the society as a whole at our expense.
As to the people who didn't leave when they should have and COULD have, I hate to say it but they made a choice and had to suffer the consequences. As to those that should have left but COULD NOT, it makes me very very sad and I pray for those that are still alive that they get the help they need.

Just my two cents.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by chronos

As to the people who didn't leave when they should have and COULD have, I hate to say it but they made a choice and had to suffer the consequences.

And then get paid when it's time to sue the City of New Orleans, et al for the levees breaking.

As to those that should have left but COULD NOT, it makes me very very sad and I pray for those that are still alive that they get the help they need.

The only people that COULD NOT are prisoners, people in the hospital, and law enforcement/fire crew, and nurses/doctors, etc who are fully expected to stay.

I don't care if you don't have a car, you can grab a trashbag of clothes and start walking. Where? Anywhere higher than here. North is good. You might not have gotten far, but you wouldn't be at the Superdome.

In addition: this whole thing at the superdome is dumb. You have (picking a number out my ass) 25,000 people at the superdome, waiting for rescue by helicopter. A group of (lets say) 100 people are shooting at the helicopter. Why didn't the 24,900 other people beat the living shit out of them for suspending the evacuation? I'd have a hard time letting some dumbshit shoot at my ride outta here. FUCK THAT!

I think martial law should have been declared yesterday, and I think TW is spot on with his diagnosis of the problem. I think rebuilding New Orleans on the present site is fucking stupid, especially in light of the article's contents, posted in the first few posts.

My company has offices in New Orleans and Pensacola, and affiliates in Baton Rouge. We're all getting together and helping the people who HAD to stay, but those who were non essential were made to evacuate by the company.

I have little sympathy for any who chose to stay, whether they had vehicles or not. A mandatory evacuation order was in place. Why will you pay these people who were stupid enough to stay? When are we going to get tired of paying higher insurance premiums for dumbasses like this???

Oh, you built a $500,000 home on Okracoke Island? The San Andreas? New Orleans? Then you're an idiot to start with, but want insurance? Um....how about... NO! Pay for any damages your dumb damn self, don't expect me and millions of others to pay for YOUR ignorant choices.

*grr*



Edit: "When the Levee Breaks" by Led Zepplin. I hear it's not allowed to be played on the radio. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

[Mr.Anon.E.Mouse]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't care if you don't have a car, you can grab a trashbag of clothes and start walking. Where? Anywhere higher than here. North is good. You might not have gotten far, but you wouldn't be at the Superdome.

I saw a video clip on the CNN.com website - an interview with a woman who was pissed off:"....We had to walk, literally walk, out of town!" Um, hello?! Sometimes you have to walk, nay, RUN, if you want to save your fucking life! In another interview a different woman described how her boy friend stole a bakery truck. Ok, well, I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but, it seems, when that truck broke down, her boyfriend's friend beat up another guy driving a semi and they stole THAT one, too!

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

In addition: this whole thing at the superdome is dumb. You have (picking a number out my ass) 25,000 people at the superdome, waiting for rescue by helicopter. A group of (lets say) 100 people are shooting at the helicopter. Why didn't the 24,900 other people beat the living shit out of them for suspending the evacuation? I'd have a hard time letting some dumbshit shoot at my ride outta here. FUCK THAT!

Hear, hear. But then maybe those sensible people were busy stopping the folks sticking up a van full of medical supplies. Oh, wait, no, they weren't.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Oh, you built a $500,000 home on Okracoke Island? The San Andreas? New Orleans? Then you're an idiot to start with, but want insurance? Um....how about... NO! Pay for any damages your dumb damn self, don't expect me and millions of others to pay for YOUR ignorant choices.

*grr*

I used to do flood determinations based on ACOE maps for the NFIP. I was blown away by the folks that would build their homes in areas that were clearly designated as not safe to build homes in as a result of tidal flooding. But you know what? The homes would get washed away and FEMA would come in and let them rebuild. Insurance would pay for the new place and Bob's yer uncle, see you again in 20 years.

Is it bad that I'm feeling very little for the victims of this horrible disaster? I mean, I gave every bit of money I could afford to give to the victims of the tsunami last year, I felt horrible for them and, damn, I just don't seem to have any more grief left. Especially for folks shooting at rescue and military helicopters, folks holding up at gun-point medical supply vehicles, folks looting their neighbors...

[wolf]

The city was evacuated of the people that were willing to go ... about 80% got out, I seem to recall. No matter how mandatory an evacuation is, there are always people who think that doesn't mean them.

Disaster plans are based on expectations ... you speculate about the loss of the entire city, but plan for about a quarter to half of that extent. That's just how it's done. Every storm is not a Cat 5, and not every Cat 3 will leave this kind of extreme devestation in it's wake.

[Elspode]

Much has also been made on the news about most of the people who didn't leave not having a means to do so...no car, no money, noplace else to go. At the time the evacuation was ordered, I don't recall hearing anything about buses, trains or other transport being arranged for the evacuees, nor was there anyplace set up for them to go in advance (I could be wrong about these points, but I never did hear anything that suggested preparations any more farsighted than "get the hell out of town now").

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by wolf

The city was evacuated of the people that were willing to go

The city was evacuated of the people that were willing and able to go.

[Kitsune]

I just heard this morning that the massive Navy hospital ship, "Comfort", will finally leave Baltimore Sunday morning.

...Sunday morning? What the hell? A catagory five storm is preparing to slam into a major Gulf coast city and they're leaving more than a week later?

[Elspode]

Five days gives the really, really sick and injured plenty of time to die, thus lessening the load. You have to think like a bureaucrat, Kitsune, before you can fathom what is going on.

[Happy Monkey]

Here's an interview with the mayor of New Orleans.

[wolf]

FEMA is a federal agency that cannot act until told to. Up until that point, it was the city, the parishes, and, if actived by the Governor, LEMA that were in charge.

They maximize survivability, not ensure it.

[Happy Monkey]

Plus, FEMA was directing some donations to Robertson's "Operation Blessing".

[tw]

from the NY Times of 2 Sept 2005
Troops Bring Food, Water and Promise of Order to New Orleans
H.L. Whitehorn, a spokesperson for the Louisiana state police, asserted that some New Orleans police officers were turning in their badges and leaving. He said that the officers that he personally knew who had resigned did so because they had lost everything in the storm and subsequent flood and saw no purpose in patrolling streets where they risked being shot by looters or thugs.

Why bother? Days later, the Federal government and FEMA (who was in operational control days previously) still sent no help. Just as in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged", the most competent people simply walk off the job when the government and management (George Jr) are totally incompetent. Show me otherwise. Show me.

Review the facts. On Monday, George Jr promised - before TV cameras - that 400 trucks were enroute with food and water. ABC News repeatedly reported how people were not being fed in the Superdome and Convention Center for days. On Thursday in one of the few news reports that truly grilled the irresponsible, Ted Koppel asks Michael Brown, Director of FEMA, why that food still was not delivered. Brown said FEMA only discovered the problem on Thursday - three days later. Whereby Koppel asked him if FEMA ever listened to news reports. Brown also did not answer that question. ABC News and numerous others were reporting for days that tens of thousands of people were not being fed or watered. FEMA did not know! More daming details. Go ahead you radical Bush supporters. Show me. Show me where any of this is in error.

Imagine how angry those Ted Koppel eyes were as he calmly interviewed a man who let so many Americans die. His name is Michael Brown. He works for George Jr. In a more responsible society and if they worked for corporations, then these two men would be indicted for criminal neglect.

So when did food finally arrive? Today - Friday. IOW it took another day after FEMA 'learned of the problem' for food to be delivered? Show me where that demonstrates competence at the highest levels of government? Show me. What was President Cheney doing all this time?

Now you tell me. People who got no water, no rescue, had no way out, and were sometimes sitting next to dead bodies; some began firing weapons. This even got attention of the Cellar where posters asked why? Why? How many more days were these people suppose to wait wihtout food and water as the mental midget president demanded? At what point do they decide they were lied to? Ironic. 400 trucks that were enroute with food must have been coming from Maine and Washington. It took four days!! So food finally arrived just as the President arrived for his press photographs. Sarcastic coincidence? The president is talking about rebuilding Trent Lott's porch while people were still dying.

Let's not forget those tarmacs at Louis Armstrong International airport (in adjacent Kenner LA) chock full of C5A and C17 transport planes with food, water, and medical supplies. Oh. The planes were never dispatched.

Show me. Show me where any of this is incorrect. If I told you this story two weeks ago, you would say it is only fiction. The incompetence is that egregious.

BTW where did Laura Bush go for her press photographs? Lafayette LA - a town I watched on Weatherbug as not one tree fell down. But then the Bushes hope you don't know that little fact. Its all about the spin - screw the people. Cheney knows they are not Republicans. Just too many coincidences.

Well, tw, I'm with you on this one. The entire thing just makes me sick at heart. All of it - from the refusal to spend money keeping the levee's repaired and pumping stations in good order to Bush whining that "WE never thought the levee's would fail," in the face of that catastrophic National Weather Service Forecast, to the incompetent and non-existant rescue efforts.

There you have it, folks - life in the US under Junior's Republican government. Welcome to the third world! Frankly, I think what this country needs is a nice asassination or, at the very least, an impeachment.