What would it take?

[mrnoodle]

I think most people are too comfortable to participate in something like a real revolt. Things would have to get very tough, indeed -- and they'd have to become simultaneously tough for the majority of the people.

No matter how angry we gets at the excesses and criminal behavior of our elected officials, we're a long way from living in the conditions that would justify an armed uprising. Our freedoms are largely intact -- the fact that we're able to have this very discussion without any real fear of reprisal is proof of that.

But yeah, from my cold, dead fingers.

[Clodfobble]

It's all about the living conditions of the average person. People in Louisiana took up arms against people who were trying to help them, because mentally they were in a place that they didn't care anymore. Their houses were gone, there were dead bodies floating in the streets, and they wanted food.

Originally Posted by Radar

Would it take the murder of your family as they did with Randy Weaver or the people in Waco?

It would take the murder of a lot of families, and I wouldn't count the ones who were stockpiling weapons and participating in a creepy pedophilic cult.

Originally Posted by Radar

Would it take the government stealing everything from you without charging you with a crime as they often do with anonymous tips they get about drug sales?

Me, and several people I know. If this is a problem, it's not widespread enough to affect average people.

Originally Posted by Radar

Would it take the government claiming that your property was theirs to give away to any private person that wants it as they have recently in supreme court decisions?

Only if it were uncompensated, and widespread. I know the compensation they offer in these situations isn't necessarily a fair market price, but I expect to get majorly screwed by someone at least a couple of times in my life. It's just the way it is.

Ultimately, I would have to be in a place where I didn't care. And as long as I have food, and a reasonable place to live, and am not being surrounded by out-and-out destruction and murder of others, I'm still going to care.

[Radar]

Ok, if my scenario wouldn't get you off your ass and into a mindset where you'd be willing to take up arms against the government, what exactly would it take? Everyone has something sacred and important. If the government made religion illegal would that do it? What would it take?

[wolf]

(Yes the gun thing would get me. My response was a quote.)

Religion being made illegal would get some of the Christians to rise up ... not the meek "love your neighbor" social relativist types, though ... the heartland, fundy types ... Good preacher could stir them up into action.

Which is at least in part what happened during the Revolution, wasn't it?

It would take a lot of Martyrs to really get the critical mass necessary for an actual revolution ... but it might never build. If the media paints every single one of these uprisings as the actions of David Koresh-like kooks, the whole movement fizzles and dies.

[iamthewalrus109]

It stands to reason that the cost of living will be a major factor that no one has discussed yet. The way I see it once suburbanites get the shaft fully the preverbial you know what will hit the fan. With the precarious natrure of our infrastructure in this country, ie. almost complete dependence on oil for everything that needs to be transported, including food!, will be part of the beginning of the end. This is the factor to watch in a violent overthrow of this country. Accordingly, in reference to the post which quoted the DOI, the governemnt isn't making the proper legislation for the people right now. Congress just passed a pork filled energy bill recently, not which one part of it really dealt with the reality of the average citizen's situation and furthermore, was an obvious piece of pork filled legislation aimed at benefiting certain energy lobby interests in DC. There will be a major energy crisis and the supplies that aren't being hit with a 10% inflationary increase at that time, won't be able to shipped at all. A major hault to oil production would mean the end of Dick Cheney's America, as it has been told by many recent authors. This in conjuction with the thin social fabric in this country, one beset by over immigration and greed, regional conflicts will abound when people who have never done more than shelp their kids to soccer games and got groceries have to fend for themselves. The continuing oil crunch, environmental effects of pollution, and the threat of a potential attack make for a strong scenario of martial law being declared at some point in the not too distant future.

Bottom line is folks: Once you have everybody in power in the federal government calling for the seizing of arms you know this country is dead. I say stockpile as many weapons as you can without drawing attention to yourself . Start front PACs and organizations to minimize your exposure, that is until the whole entire fabric of our society unravels, which isn't far away by the way. Through these funnel funds and collect other indivduals willing to collect arms as indivduals, start a network, a silent network. Sub divide the front to keep things moving and under the radar, and wait for the proper moment to seize power, ie. after a major catastrophe. Hey just remember: "they got the guns be we got the numbers" With the mishandling of the Iraq war and the debacle that was Katrina, I question the moblization efforts against a domestic threat in the time of national direst.

What would it take for me? well I'm pretty much already there, I'm just waiting for the sweater to start to really unravel then mobilize.......

[Undertoad]

Let's say someone makes the ultimate computer virus. It takes out every single bank, every single credit agency, the government, etc. and the economy of America collapses resulting in Marshall law. The government is doing door to door searches,

If they want to search my house and we are in emergency situation, I would permit it. If we are dealing with a true economic collapse you HOPE they declare marshall law so that some level of order can be maintained while the collapse is dealt with, so it is as brief as possible.

If an agent of the government wants to search your house and doesn't have good intent under emergency circumstances, you are not taking up arms against the government, just one little tiny part of it. If you think you can protect your little island of order amongst a state of complete disorder, you are a moron. You only have so much ammo and so many hours of day in which you can stay awake.

[iamthewalrus109]

I'd rather be a dead moron who died on my terms defending what I thought was right then in some relocation camp somewhere. Screw that!

It all depends on the threat. I have no faith that under complete direst this government would have any control. When something goes down on a large scale the government will be too busy saving it's own ass and it's true constituents the power elite to care about your safety, and anybody who doesn't believe that is truly a moron. If your smart you won't wait for their intstructions when the shit hits the fan. You'll be ready.... In many respects its not the government I worry about, it comes down to how you want to live or die once there is a complete breakdown. Individuals defending tiny bastions is not what I had in mind, more along regional cadres and federations to keep the local order. In essence that's what it would take any way.

[Hobbs]

Protection. That would do it for me.

The only time I would even consider taking up arms against something other than a nice Mallard in flight would be to protection against some invading hoard.

Scenario...

Much to our surprise, al qaeda has infultrated 10,000 operatives into this country over the past 5 or so years. They begin to systematically invade neigborhoods, towns, and utimately cities to try to "carve out" a muslim state here. One of these groups of fist pumping extremists try to invade my neighborhood and I had no way out, as a last resort, I would be inclinded to take up arms. The operative word here is extreme circumstances.

I'm sorry, but the potential loss of certain freedoms in this country, the government searching my home for firearms are not enough to deny my wife and kids my life in theirs because I was gunned down in some armed conflict. My first job is to protect my family and I can't do that if I am lying face down in the mud somewhere. But if someone was threating my family with bodily harm, you'd better believe I'd pick up a weapon and form an army.

[Radar]

Actually the question was..."What action could the government take.....what line could it cross...that would make you take up arms against the U.S. government in an armed revolution?" I wasn't asking what it would take for you to take up arms against hostile Muslims, or Extremist Christians. Just the U.S. Government....our servant.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Radar

Actually the question was..."What action could the government take.....what line could it cross...that would make you take up arms against the U.S. government in an armed revolution?"

One more unreported golf outing and Taft is sooooooo out of there!

(State gov't counts, right?)

[Radar]

The overwhelming majority of American soldiers would refuse under any circumstances to fire on American civilians regardless of their orders. I have a feeling those in the FBI, CIA, BATF, NSA, and others under the "Homeland Security Department" would be more than willing to shoot Americans.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Radar

The overwhelming majority of American soldiers would refuse under any circumstances to fire on American civilians regardless of their orders. I have a feeling those in the FBI, CIA, BATF, NSA, and others under the "Homeland Security Department" would be more than willing to shoot Americans.

Blackwater! Also the military continues to push for and deploy more robots, drones and autonomous killing machines that require just a couple sickos to operate an army.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by Radar

The overwhelming majority of American soldiers would refuse under any circumstances to fire on American civilians regardless of their orders.

Umm, Radar, where were you during the late '60s? I'm afraid you are unduly optimistic about their reluctance to shoot people. They had few problems shooting students before, maybe it's only armed middle-aged types they would think twice about.

[wolf]

As long as the welfare checks cash, there won't be any uprising in this country.

When the welfare checks don't cash, it won't be a revolution in the sense that we're discussing here, it will be an outpouring of lawless rioting by an artificially created and maintained underclass.

[Radar]

So I take it from this group that with the exception of Wolf, walrus, and myself, not one of you would be willing to stand up and fight under any circumstances. The government could decide tomorrow to murder anyone over the age of 30, and those of you over 30 would get in line for the slaughter. You'd let them kill you, your wife, your children, and your parents. You'd let them take everything you work for, and everything you've ever owned. You'd let them do anything they wanted, and you'd never fight back.

That's pretty depressing.