12/6/2005: Naked PETA protest

[gerstle]

"...but hunting is a choice and undertaken almost solely for the pleasure of killing animals (please note - consensus of opinion - not my view)."

whose consensus? I don't know if i agree with this...

I'm not a hunter myself, but i live in montana where hunting is a regular part of life and I see a lot of this first hand. 99% of the hunters i know (or have heard of) hunt for the meat. Do they enjoy shooting guns - killing animals included? Sure, most of them do. But, if you're hunting to have meat to enjoy and eat i still see this as much more respectful than those of us that get our meet from the grocery in a little package and have no knowledge of or connection to the animal it came from. I even know folks that enjoy shooting stuff so much that they spend all their time and money on guns; however, they won't take down an elk or a deer simply because they don't like the meat (personally, i think they're nuts for preferring beef).

Are there people who hunt simply for the trophy to hang on the wall and/or the "thrill of the hunt?" Sure, but these people are looked down upon by the hunting community as much as by non-hunters. For example, I've seen wanted posters around town for any information of who killed such and such animal illegally and left it. Hunters do not take that sort of thing lightly.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by gerstle

"...but hunting is a choice and undertaken almost solely for the pleasure of killing animals (please note - consensus of opinion - not my view)."

whose consensus? I don't know if i agree with this...

I was referring to most people I know, or more accurately most people I have discussed this with. Perhaps it's because in this country, hunting is often associated with fox hunting and hare coursing.

My personal views on hunting match yours.

I wouldn't want to hunt my own meat because I doubt I'd catch anything & would just end up cold & miserable. But if my meat consumption depended on it, I'd find some way of taking part.

[Karenv]

I agree that it is more respectful to match wits with an animal, track it and hunt it than to buy meat in the prepackaged trays in the grocery store. In fact I think one is likely to eat less meat if they have to kill it. And I will bet that less gets wasted.

As for PETA, they kill all kinds of pets. Between 1998 and 2004 they killed 12,473 of the 15,661 animals they received in their Norfolk VA headquarters. That is a 79.6% kill rate with only 18.5% adopted. In 2000, when the Associated Press first noted PETA's Kervorkian-esque tendencies, PETA president Ingrid Newkirk complained that actually taking care of animals costs more than killing them. "We could become a no-kill shelter immediately," she admitted.

PETA kills animals. Because it has other financial priorities like fund raising.

And they are actually one of the chief terrorist groups in the country according to a friend who is a trained security consultant.

Check out http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

[magilla]

Originally Posted by Karenv

As for PETA, they kill all kinds of pets. Between 1998 and 2004 they killed 12,473 of the 15,661 animals they received in their Norfolk VA headquarters. That is a 79.6% kill rate with only 18.5% adopted. In 2000, when the Associated Press first noted PETA's Kervorkian-esque tendencies, PETA president Ingrid Newkirk complained that actually taking care of animals costs more than killing them. "We could become a no-kill shelter immediately," she admitted.

PETA kills animals. Because it has other financial priorities like fund raising.

And they are actually one of the chief terrorist groups in the country according to a friend who is a trained security consultant.

Check out http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

To give PETA their due, they take in a lot of animals who are just not going to survive, and they euthanize them. As a biologist who firmly believes in experimenting on animals, I am not the biggest cheerleader in the PETA fan club, but I do believe the animals need to be treated as humanely as possible and with dignity and respect. I don't like PETA's tactics (they destroy or vandalize personal property, and endanger peoples' lives) but they have helped in stopping the worst excesses of groups like the cosmetics industry, who were tormenting animals for no really good reason (using animals when they didn't have to, needlessly keeping animals in terrible conditions, that sort of thing).

Just remember that PETA is one of those "big tent" groups that pulls in anyone from well-meaning but ignorant people, fund-raising sharps, vegans, ovo-lactans, new-age crystal-power gurus, you name it. And folks like the young lady pictured above. "It's for the animals!" Kind of like "What about the children?!"

Chris

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by magilla

To give PETA their due, they take in a lot of animals who are just not going to survive, and they euthanize them. ~~snip

The animals being killed and dropped in dumpsters were in perfect condition when they were killed, according to the vet they were picked up from and forensic examination.

[Trilby]

Els--is it possible that you are drunk?

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Els--is it possible that you are drunk?

Naked womens, is naked womens. You never know what you're gonna get until you unwrap 'em. That's why naked womens is good.

[zippyt]

Naked womens, is naked womens. You never know what you're gonna get until you unwrap 'em. That's why naked womens is good.

OH that SOOOO needs to go on a t-shirt !!!!!!!

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by zippyt

Naked womens, is naked womens. You never know what you're gonna get until you unwrap 'em. That's why naked womens is good.

OH that SOOOO needs to go on a t-shirt !!!!!!!

Large, 100% cotton. I'll take two.

And a coffee mug.

What the hell, I'll take the hat too.

[wolf]

I think Avon dumped the bunnies long before PETA came on the scene. That was the work of a LOT of organizations involved in aminal welfare causes.

PETA just reaps the benefits of that.

[Karenv]

Well not only do they kill lots of animals, donated by people who expect that an animal rights group is a group that has a no-kill policy, but they fund terror groups like the Earth Liberation Front, the Animal Liberation Front, the arsonist Rodney Coronado ($75,000 in legal defense funds). No matter what ms. kitty cat says about not having a connection- their tax returns tell a different story.

http://www.activistcash.com/organiza...iew.cfm/oid/21

Look, I applaud people raising concerns about animal experimentation and inhumane treatment of animals. I think factory farms are an abomination and I try to eat only organic meat from small farms where I (or my food coop members) can talk to the farmers. But this group is beyond the pale.

[SmurfAbuser]

Originally Posted by Karenv

Well not only do they kill lots of animals, donated by people who expect that an animal rights group is a group that has a no-kill policy, .

If you expect that any of the major animal rights groups has a "no-kill" policy, you haven't done your homework. Neither the HSUS nor the ASPCA is no-kill, either. Approximately 4 million cats and dogs are euthanized every year in the U.S.--there are simply too many of them. No-kill shelters look great on paper, but with huge numbers like that, they don't work. I volunteered at a county-run shelter for years. If a 10-year-old, agressive shepherd mix with health problems comes in, he is not going to get adopted. If 200 kittens come in in one week, they are all not going to get adopted, either. Sad but true, they will be euthanized when their five days are up, and the same probably holds true for the animals PETA, the HSUS and the ASPCA take in. It's not the shelter's fault, it's the fault of people who keep breeding animals and treat them like disposable objects.

Not to bum everybody out or get on a soapbox, but as someone who has been in the trenches, it's pretty easy to point fingers at those who are forced to do society's dirty work.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by SmurfAbuser

snip~~ Sad but true, they will be euthanized when their five days are up, and the same probably holds true for the animals PETA, the HSUS and the ASPCA take in. ~~snip

Everything you say is true. BUT, PETA was picking up healthy animals, killing (euthanizing) them in the pick-up van and dropping them in dumpsters. This was a pair of PETA's home base workers.

The people that work for PETA are, for the most part, genuinely passionate about the welfare of the animals. They volunteer or work for little money to try to make a difference.
The problem is the organization is rotten at the core. The people at the top are about money, violence, imposing their views on everyone at any cost.
The warm and fuzzy save the puppies and kitties image they promote is a sham. The real agenda is to make everyone a vegetarian with no pets….no matter who gets hurt.

[SmurfAbuser]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Everything you say is true. BUT, PETA was picking up healthy animals, killing (euthanizing) them in the pick-up van and dropping them in dumpsters. This was a pair of PETA's home base workers.

Yeah, I did hear about that incident, and it's inexcusable. I'm not here to try to defend PETA (I don't have time for that!), but I highly doubt that it is their written policy to euthanize animals in vans and dump them dumpsters. They're not that stupid, nor in my opinion, are they all that evil. From my understanding it was two rogue workers acting on their own accord, for whatever bizarre reason.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The warm and fuzzy save the puppies and kitties image they promote is a sham. The real agenda is to make everyone a vegetarian with no pets….no matter who gets hurt.

The vegetarian thing is propably accurate, but not the pets part. They actually have a really helpful Web site about caring for cats and dogs that I've referred people to many times (HelpingAnimals.com). If they wanted to get rid of all pets, wouldn't they just be telling people to dump them by the side of road or take them to a shelter where they'll be euthanized? They wouldn't be giving advice about the best kinds of food to give your cat or training tips for your dog.

I agree there's problems with PETA, and there are also problems at the HSUS, your local shelter, whatever. You can't just tell them "don't euthanize that cute little puppy!"--unless, of course, you're willing to take in that puppy and every other one like it.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by SmurfAbuser

From my understanding it was two rogue workers acting on their own accord, for whatever bizarre reason.

The "rogue workers" excuse is getting a little thin.