Difficult Civil Rights Question

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

What they do in their own time is their own affair......but not when the job in question involves them looking to the wellbeing of the public. Policemen, Judges, Public officials.

So, you wouldn't have allowed David Duke to run for public office? Would you have a list of forbidden political parties or beliefs, or simply let higher officials discriminate based on their own judgement?

You're in quicksand here...I recommend not struggling.

[Trilby]

Other people who serve the public: Doctors, nurses, lab techs, mental health techs, firemen and women, parking meter enforcement, tour guides... All these people have the right to be Klanners or neo-nazi's.

[DanaC]

I would have severe misgivings about a policeman who had joined any political group which espoused a lack of rights for any demographic within the community they were supposed to police.

Do the Nation of Islam espouse the violent removal of, or aggressive countering of particular groups within America?

If they argue merely that the Black man should live separately that is different to arguing for the violent removal/destruction of the white race. If the KKK was arguing merely for separation between the races on an equal footing, then I wouldn't like em much but I wouldn't consider them as dangerous.

I don't really know much about the Nation of Islam. Other than that it was historically a militant response to the lack of civil rights of black people in America at that time.

[DanaC]

Can't stop people running for election. If people want to vote in someone with foul and dangerous views, that's their prerogative.

I'm talking about unelected people who have the right to sit in judgement of or enforce the law under which all groups have to live.

Actually, I just realised....Judges are elected over there are they?

If so that's a different matter. I would hope that a white supremacist woldn't be voted into any kind of public office but that's the publics' right if they want to.

Unelected and therefore imposed is a different matter altogether.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Actually, I just realised....Judges are elected over there are they?

Some judgeships are elective office here.

I just don't think you can summarily fire someone from a government job because of what they beleive. Again...would you make a list of forbidden parties? Or just forbidden beliefs? Or let the supervising official make individual judgements? Because that sounds like what you're saying.

I guess I really shouldn't be surprised given how you expected speech you considered racist to be policed here on the Cellar. But I am.

[DanaC]

I'm being bitchy, I know, but I have been wondering what the feelings are for the rights of neo-Nazi's and Klanners since we're all so OK with militant Muslim's calling for blood and beheadings.

I really would think that any policeman who avocated beheadings would be in a very tenuous position vis a vis his job:P

[DanaC]

I guess I really shouldn't be surprised given how you expected speech you considered racist to be policed here on the Cellar. But I am.

I never considered it should be policed. I just expressed surprise and disgust when I found racism amongst people I respect. That then led to a debate on language and racism. At no point did I think some moderator should have policed that debate or the original word that sparked it. There's a difference between my expressing surprise and arguing vehemently against the use of a particular word ....and my thinking you don't have the right to use that word or that the cellar shold be in someway policing that.
It was a debate. That's the whole point about free speech isn't it?

[DanaC]

I agree with rkzenrage. Having been off and googled some information on Nation of Islam. I'd be very uncomfortable about an Officer being a member of that group.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I'd be very uncomfortable about an Officer being a member of that group.

It's a good thing public jobs here aren't awarded or kept on the basis of the "comfort" of individuals. Criteria have to be objective.

[Stormieweather]

So it is ok (in the name of civil rights) to allow the same person whose duty it is to protect and serve every citizen, to investigate crimes and to keep the peace, to ALSO be a member of a group advocating violence and whose primary goal is to oppress an entire race (or races) through terrorism, intimidation and hatred? How can one not see a conflict so great as to totally impede the proper fulfillment of one's duty to their badge? The two masters are diametrically opposed and irreconcilable.

Stormie

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

So it is ok (in the name of civil rights) to allow the same person whose duty it is to protect and serve every citizen, to investigate crimes and to keep the peace, to ALSO be a member of a group advocating violence...

I think you'll find modern Klan organizations have been extremely careful not to get caught openly advocating violence.

They may be racists, but they're not completely stupid.

Everyone has the right to use any word they like. That is the whole point of free speech.

[DanaC]

Yes they do. And everyone has the right to object to a word if they find it offensive. I guarantee if I started a thread about 'niggers' someone would object to my using that word.

I would say that it is objectionable, but would have no issue with the fact that you used it.
I have an issue with the fact that the Cellar is so wimpy about this issue.

[DanaC]

I saw a word which is used as a racist taunt in England and launched straight into a debate on racism. I was surprised to find a racist slur used by someone who had never struck me as racist and posted that. Does that mean i don't think she had the right to use that word? No. I found it objectionable and posted as such. As it turned out, that word does not carry the same connotations over there as it does here. But I think most brits who saw it did a doubletake. I had as much right to express my disgust at seeing that term used as the person who used it did in posting it.