A stunning report from ABC News?

[Undertoad]

Well you're more interested in assessing blame between Presidents, while I'm more interested in assessing the errors of tw.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Well you're more interested in assessing blame between Presidents, while I'm more interested in assessing the errors of tw.

UT never cites errors. Just claims that some assumed error exists. UT, on the other hand, is trying to confuse 'big dic' thinking with intelligent use of 'carrot and stick'. The NY Times reminds us how Def Sec Perry threatened to attack and destroy the DPRK nuclear facilities. Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter negotiated a deal to stop the nuclear program. No 'big dic'. A head located between shoulders was being used. Same strategy was also used to negotiate Milosevic out of office in Serbia. Previously, that DPRK plutonium was locked away in UN sealed buildings because Clinton used logic – not ‘big dic’ diplomacy.

Assuming DPRK exploded a plutonium bomb, then where did that plutonium come from? NY Times sources suggest the bomb was plutonium previously locked and monitored by UN inspectors due to a Jimmy Carter's Nobel Prize winning deal. All was fine until 'big dic' diplomacy deployed a Cold War bias. A mental midget president so refused to talk that the DPRK - with great publicity and fanfare - announced each action, then announced the date of that action, then performed the action with UN inspectors on site .... desperately trying to get George Jr to only talk using large international exposure. DPRK was desperately warning the world of consequences if US refused to talk.

But a 'big dic' president knew better. He knew that America was too weak to talk with the DPRK. Condi Rice still says so today. Eventually, uranium rods were loaded into a small reactor to increase plutonium content – and everyone knew exactly where those rods would be for months. Still George Jr refused to talk. If NY Times sources are correct, this same plutonium, which could have been negotiated back into storage, instead, became the first of maybe 6 or 10 bombs.

UT, whose solution advocates war, would now say tw has posted in error? Where? If that bomb was that plutonium from two years ago, then the bomb exists only because of American 'big dic' diplomacy. A refusal to talk for five years. George Jr refused to talk when clearly that plutonium was a negotiable entity. Too late now.

If this bomb was plutonium - not uranium - then DPRK success has accelerated so quickly that a DPRK crisis will be totally out of control before George Jr's removal. How out of control? Another fact so often ignored. Who has a largest amount - if not most - of the world's plutonium? That problem was posted here in the Cellar so many years ago. UT - you must know that answer because you so avocate a military solution. Tell us where all this plutonium is located?

If this DPRK bomb was that UN monitored uranium, then that plutonium is no longer negotiable. It could have been negotiable had America elected a president with minimal intelligence. Due to his ‘big dic’ diplomacy, that plutonium is now non-negotiable. Just another reason why we should be talking about impeachment before a mental midget can make things incurably worse. If that bomb was that plutonium, then we don't have another three years to 'fear bilateral talk'.

The cost of buying out the DPRK's 'big dic' power brokers has become enormous. By 2008, that cost will be too high for American ‘big dic’ power brokers – who apparently want war anyway. Overwhelming majority of South Koreans have it right. Greatest threat of war comes from a US that could have negotiated those uranium rods back into storage. Apparently, another opportunity for peace has been lost due to a president who says, “Bring it on!” As accurately predicted by a Norwegian's foreign minister, George Jr destroyed the Oslo Accords. Now he has successfully destroyed everything Jimmy Carter accomplished in mid-1990s when the cost of buying out DPRK 'big dics' was so cheap.

NY TImes article cited by UT says suggests far more than UT apparently realizes.

[Happy Monkey]

Actually I was more interested in figuring out what they were trying to say there, since it seemed unclear to me. Though the subject of the paragraph is presidential blame, so you're correct to that extent.

Here's the timeline I now read from the paragraph:

Bush 1 - NK starts plutonium refining
Clinton - Clinton gets them to stop with the plutonium. NK secretly starts uranium research instead. No success (though there's no way to know how close they may have gotten).
Bush 2 - NK kicks out inspectors, switches back to plutonium, and has at least a partial success.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I'd hesitate to believe the Clinton Administration's negotiations with the DPRK stopped anything.

Remember that if it weren't for negotiating in bad faith, the DPRK wouldn't negotiate in any faith at all.

This is not just a typical Commie sin, it is a stereotypical Commie sin.

[Hippikos]

Kim needs more than that which is why weeks will not be long enough.

It was just a matter of speaking, it's the goal you're after.

Eisenhower was another cunning diplomat. The way he handled the Suez Crisis made the US the most influential party in the ME. It could have been easy the other way around applying the Bush doctrine.

Today even Bush's own GOP members don't want him around on election tour being a risk factor...

[tw]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Eisenhower was another cunning diplomat. The way he handled the Suez Crisis made the US the most influential party in the ME.

Considering how many endorse torture by their silence with S3930 - that basically makes torture and kidnapping of non-American citizens legal ... I wonder how many really understood what Hppokos has just posted. Unfortunately, a large number of totally ignorant lurkers means no response. This is a question of

Originally Posted by tw

... avoid wars by learning from history.

or how likely is the next 'axis of evil' war. A question asked, in part, because I started asking randon people who I don't know and discovered a clear majority - an overwhelming number of people - don't vote. Are we that ignorant as to let MaggieL vote for our morality?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Today even Bush's own GOP members don't want him around on election tour being a risk factor...

True, but not because he's a total pariah.
The faithful, like UG, still kiss the bottom of the boots trampling their rights.

They don't want him around because they are trying to fool the moderates into thinking they are not part of the problem and the stupid into thinking they are part of the solution.

Yeah, right!
The anti-patriot acts, illegal wire taps, illegal money tracking, torture, and now illegal holdings and trials for US citizens without representation or even evidence is SO FUCKING LIBERTARIAN!!!f
The man and is cabinet are Nazis and belong behind bars.

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

True, but not because he's a total pariah.
The faithful, like UG, still kiss the bottom of the boots trampling their rights.

They don't want him around because they are trying to fool the moderates into thinking they are not part of the problem and the stupid into thinking they are part of the solution.

Faitfull UG has a brown arm with every person on the right side of Junior...

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Today even Bush's own GOP members don't want him around on election tour being a risk factor...

He is still pimping for the truly desperate ones. There was a recent sighting in my district.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Tw's faith in locked buildings, inside a totalitarian country that wants nukes, is charming -- but quite unrealistic.

If you don't want the Kim Jong Il regime to get the Bomb, you'll have to remove either the regime or the reactors and reprocessing facilities.

And when those non-US-citizens make war upon US citizens in their pissy, undersized way, fighting wars against America as proxies for their sponsors? Seems to me we should wring every scrap of knowledge we can get from them. The Constitution's protections are for American citizens! America-haters need not and must not apply. America's cause is humanity's cause, and the enemies of mankind should be consumed in Allah's holy fire! "Holy smoked! -- that used to be a jihadi!"

How much peace will spread across the planet if all of Islam's Idiots were to fall down dead this afternoon?

If you are a citizen, you are a citizen, period, and deserve the protection of the Constitution.
What is in the White House and Co. is a cancer and needs to be removed.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Rkzen, why impeach the guy who's the most libertarian of all of the Presidentibili? I think the impeachoids are silly, if not nutty altogether.

The commie/totalitarian-symp Left couldn't get Reagan on doing just what Bush is doing. They'll not get Bush, either. Reagan and Bush have both been good for the Republic, and bad for the commie-symp influence-peddlers, whose stupid sense of enlightenment induces them to yowl, scream, and be antipatriots.

Screw them all with a splintery fence post lubed with sulfuric acid. Ram it up theirs until they look like unicorns. America calls for revenge upon anti-democracy, anti-human idiots.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Rkzen, why impeach the guy who's the most libertarian of all of the Presidentibili?

He has suspended habeus corpus. He is the least libertarian President ever.

[JayMcGee]

yeah, lets do it. Nuke all the non-democratic states afore they....

nuke us?
send us their poor?
look to us for guidance?
imigrate to us?
pray for us?