"Why does the world hate the Jews?" Article - Page 4

Flint · 12-12-2006, 04:26 PM

With all these disagreements, it sounds like the word doesn't actually mean anything tangible.
If I thought I was calling myself a nonsense-word, I would drop the word, and keep my beliefs.

equazcion · 12-12-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

With all these disagreements, it sounds like the word doesn't actually mean anything tangible.
If I thought I was calling myself a nonsense-word, I would drop the word, and keep my beliefs.

That's a good solution, in theory, but I think it's too extreme for most people to actually put into practical use. "*gasp* You're saying you're not Christian anymore? Are you sure that's safe?" Dropping the word could in-and-of-itself be viewed as sacreligious. PS, that's not just the case with Christianity. Any religious person would be uncomfortable separating themselves from the general mass that way. It's like excluding yourself from a club, you don't get to belong anymore, you have to turn in your membership card and everything. Not a positive feeling.

equazcion · 12-12-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

...if I did believe in God, I'd be rather inclined to find whichever interpretation seemed to actually tell me what God wants of me and then follow it. I'd need to feel pretty sure I was being sold the wrong path to actually change it.

As I said before my feeling is that Christianity as defined by Christians contains the premise that everyone else is just mistaken in whatever God they believe in. "Conversion" to them isn't just switching menu choices to something that looks more attractive; it's leaving behind your mistaken beliefs in favor of the correct ones, as many have been convinced is the case.

DanaC · 12-12-2006, 04:52 PM

Well said Sheldon.

Equazcion, my comment about people abandoning their current beliefs or converting based, was in response to a comment made by Flint. I would imagine most people who change their religion don't do so lightly.

Flint · 12-12-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

...my comment about people abandoning their current beliefs or converting based, was in response to a comment made by Flint...

To be specific: what I've posted here was the opposite of abandoning your beliefs. What I've posted was that your beliefs should be stronger than your loyalty to a social club; therefore if you're in a club that doesn't share your beliefs, you should stop being a member of that club.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-13-2006, 06:24 AM

Why? Maybe shit like this.

equazcion · 12-13-2006, 06:39 AM

Right, Flint, but again I don't think the average person has the courage to put that into practice.

DanaC · 12-12-2006, 04:56 PM

Umm...don't know. I think I prefer Sheldon's....just seems snappier.

equazcion · 12-12-2006, 05:05 PM

It's like, you start reading it, "I've scraped smarter things than Paris Hilton," and it sounds like you're saying you've scraped other people who were smarter than Paris Hilton, then you get to the "off my shoes" part, and you have to rethink the sentence. Whereas "I've scraped things off my shoes," makes it clear right away that we're talking about scraping something off shoes, not just going and scraping things. See what I mean? I know when I read it originally, I had to re-read it a couple times before it made fluid sense. Anyway it's just a suggestion. As far-reaching as the implications that this issue presents, I'm willing to concede to whichever version Sheldon decides on.

Sheldonrs · 12-12-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equazcion

It's like, you start reading it, "I've scraped smarter things than Paris Hilton," and it sounds like you're saying you've scraped other people who were smarter than Paris Hilton, then you get to the "off my shoes" part, and you have to rethink the sentence. Whereas "I've scraped things off my shoes," makes it clear right away that we're talking about scraping something off shoes, not just going and scraping things. See what I mean? I know when I read it originally, I had to re-read it a couple times before it made fluid sense. Anyway it's just a suggestion. As far-reaching as the implications that this issue presents, I'm willing to concede to whichever version Sheldon decides on.

I'm gonna stick with the version I have already. It has a better cadence to my ear. But thanks for noticing it and making suggestions.

We now return this thread to the subject of Jews and hatred.

equazcion · 12-12-2006, 05:15 PM

Yeah I was gonna say, I didn't mean to halt the whole conversation, just present some comic relief. Please, continue. Anyone?

12-12-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equazcion

I'm not sure if it's based on fact. But I did present some evidence that it's reasonable for people to make the assumption. Isn't it true that even non-evangelical priests are interested in converting people, that they feel they're doing something God wants, and when they do it they feel the person has been saved? I admittedly get this mostly from cultural references, TV and movies (quite a few individuals too), but that message does seem to be overwhelming. I don't think I've ever seen a priest portrayed as not holding those kinds of beliefs, and I'm not talking about contexts that aim to put Christianity down. I'm talking about everything, even realistic media, that's just all I've ever seen.

I hope someone has some information that might shed some light on whether or not this is true. Maybe there's a priest out there?

Anyway my point isn't to say anything negative about Christianity -- I'm only balancing the 'doctrine' you pointed out about Judaism. Jews may have it written down, but it is far from doctrine, and I'm pretty sure Christians have done more with their verbal version anyway.

The difference between what you are doing and what I have done is that you are lumping all those who follow Christ into one group... some are following a faith, others the business of the religion. The two have nothing to do with each other.
I have not done so with the Jewish faithful.

equazcion · 12-12-2006, 07:20 PM

I didn't say all those who follow Christ. I'm saying Christianity. I'm not lumping anyone into anything. I know plenty believers in Jesus don't hold those beliefs, but it still stands that it is doctrine for Christianity that everyone else is going to hell. It's not doctrine for Judaism that everyone else is "an ass," as you said.

equazcion · 12-12-2006, 07:27 PM

That's alright, I forgive you.

DanaC · 12-13-2006, 06:49 AM

Alternatively, people believe that their grouping has it right, but that some people within it are pushing a harder line/slightly different interpretation and making it unpleasant, but not to the point that they are made to doubt the basic idea that unites them.

12-12-2006, 04:26 PM	#1
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	With all these disagreements, it sounds like the word doesn't actually mean anything tangible. If I thought I was calling myself a nonsense-word, I would drop the word, and keep my beliefs. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-13-2006, 06:24 AM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Why? Maybe shit like this. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-12-2006, 04:52 PM	#4
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Well said Sheldon. Equazcion, my comment about people abandoning their current beliefs or converting based, was in response to a comment made by Flint. I would imagine most people who change their religion don't do so lightly.

12-13-2006, 06:39 AM	#7
equazcion Thinks "pie" is a funny word. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York City, NY, United States of America, Earth Posts: 65	Right, Flint, but again I don't think the average person has the courage to put that into practice.

12-12-2006, 04:56 PM	#8
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Umm...don't know. I think I prefer Sheldon's....just seems snappier.

12-12-2006, 05:05 PM	#9
equazcion Thinks "pie" is a funny word. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York City, NY, United States of America, Earth Posts: 65	It's like, you start reading it, "I've scraped smarter things than Paris Hilton," and it sounds like you're saying you've scraped other people who were smarter than Paris Hilton, then you get to the "off my shoes" part, and you have to rethink the sentence. Whereas "I've scraped things off my shoes," makes it clear right away that we're talking about scraping something off shoes, not just going and scraping things. See what I mean? I know when I read it originally, I had to re-read it a couple times before it made fluid sense. Anyway it's just a suggestion. As far-reaching as the implications that this issue presents, I'm willing to concede to whichever version Sheldon decides on.

12-12-2006, 05:15 PM	#11
equazcion Thinks "pie" is a funny word. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York City, NY, United States of America, Earth Posts: 65	Yeah I was gonna say, I didn't mean to halt the whole conversation, just present some comic relief. Please, continue. Anyone?

12-12-2006, 07:20 PM	#13
equazcion Thinks "pie" is a funny word. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York City, NY, United States of America, Earth Posts: 65	I didn't say all those who follow Christ. I'm saying Christianity. I'm not lumping anyone into anything. I know plenty believers in Jesus don't hold those beliefs, but it still stands that it is doctrine for Christianity that everyone else is going to hell. It's not doctrine for Judaism that everyone else is "an ass," as you said.

12-12-2006, 07:27 PM	#14
equazcion Thinks "pie" is a funny word. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York City, NY, United States of America, Earth Posts: 65	That's alright, I forgive you.

12-13-2006, 06:49 AM	#15
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Alternatively, people believe that their grouping has it right, but that some people within it are pushing a harder line/slightly different interpretation and making it unpleasant, but not to the point that they are made to doubt the basic idea that unites them.

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