Climate Expert Says NASA Tried to Silence Him

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Irie

I would love to be able to point a finger at someone for ignoring the "climate change" issue going on, but it really is everyones responsibility.

Everyone should be aware by now that it's getting warmer, the climate is changing, and people a likely contributing to it.
BUT, before we start dictating radical changes in lifestyle, shouldn't we ask some questions?
Like, so it's getting warmer, so what? Is that a bad thing? How warm will it get and what will that mean? Can we do anything about it or is our contribution too small to have that effect? Or is it too late to effect the outcome, even if we could have?

Don't equate change with bad, some changes are good ....or at least neutral.
If we are going to do something we need a plan. In order to have a plan we have to know where we get the most bang for the buck. That's hard until we have some hard facts, which seem to be as rare as hen's teeth.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If we are going to do something we need a plan. In order to have a plan we have to know where we get the most bang for the buck. That's hard until we have some hard facts, which seem to be as rare as hen's teeth.

We have a plan. The problem is that some just fear innovation - simply love the status quo. Hell, GM was given $100million to build a hybrid - and did not even do that. Instead they build 300 HP vehicles - and label that obsolete crap as innovation?

The plan exists with options and ballpark numbers. But again, it would require xoxoxoBruce to read any technical discussions. xoxoxoBruce could not find enough money to buy that issue of Scientific American. But somehow he knows no plan exists. Denial is widespread among those who love the status quo.

Do nothing until we detail every aspect of the plan. Nonsense. Even Wal-mart has a program to reduce by a factor of seven the energy consumed by wasteful lighting. And yet xoxoxoBruces says we should wait, do nothing, until a better plan is created.

We don't even insulate building. What some call insulation is trivial efforts only determined by oil selling at low prices – even subsidized by the government. But again, it is called solutions to global warming – not a political ideology. xoxoxoBruce says don't require buildings to be insulated. Let's wait until a better plan is created.

Those who address global warming now will be the rich nations then. They will own the solutions. But what would a bean counter say? Let's wait until a better plan is created. Build V-8 engines because profits are higher. Idiots. That is why GM does not have profits. No wonder they oppose solutions to global warming.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

so it's getting warmer, so what? Is that a bad thing?

Global warming = severe local weather more often. Can we deal with a Katrina sized storm every couple years? Can we deal with a loss like California's entire citrus crop every once in a while? Can we deal with changes in precipitation and another dust bowl like they had in the 30's? As global warming continues, scientists are pretty sure that severe weather like this will increase. I'd say that is a bad thing.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

Global warming = severe local weather more often. Can we deal with a Katrina sized storm every couple years? Can we deal with a loss like California's entire citrus crop every once in a while? Can we deal with changes in precipitation and another dust bowl like they had in the 30's? As global warming continues, scientists are pretty sure that severe weather like this will increase. I'd say that is a bad thing.

I suppose you have evidence that these things are caused by global warming..... even though they have all happened before... many times.
I also suppose you can prove it's worse than ever before....and it's our fault....and we can do something about it?
The total time man has recorded the weather, is a pisshole in a snow bank compared to the weather we haven't. A hunded years, a thousand years, ten thousand years, are nothing

Despite tw ranting and raving that I said all kinds of shit I never said, it makes sense to do what ever you can (can afford) to cut your energy consumption just for the cost savings alone. But to actually have a chance of having an effect on the climate, we need more than that.
It's got to be a national effort...a plan....which we don't have. Walmart trying to force everyone to buy their bulbs is not a national plan. Neither are the other schemes tw cites.

Next to where I work is a coal fired power plant that spews more shit into the air in one day than I will in my whole life.
I am not the key to any solution for global warming, if in fact there is one. I did a lot of looking and reading for the Inconvenient Truth thread. The only thing the experts could agree on is that global warming exists. Of course tw says the scientists that agree with him are right and the ones that don't are scumbags, but realistically what are we supposed to believe? And what can we do about it?
Will it make a difference? Damifino.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

so it's getting warmer, so what? Is that a bad thing?

Originally Posted by glatt

Global warming = severe local weather more often. Can we deal with a Katrina sized storm every couple years? ....

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I suppose you have evidence that these things are caused by global warming..... even though they have all happened before... many times.

There is a clear causal correlation between the temperature of the Atlantic Ocean's surface and the hurricane activity for that season. There are also clear causal correlations between the Pacific Ocean's surface temperatures and storms in California and elsewhere. (El Nino and La Nina.) As the Earth gets warmer, the oceans will get warmer. We already know that warmer oceans mean more hurricanes. Is it such a stretch to say that warmer oceans will have a major impact on the weather?

Sure, we don't know the extent of man's responsibility for global warming. We don't know if we can reverse the trend. But I think we can say that global warming (1) exists and (2) is bad. Those are two points that I think can be put into the category of "settled." There's still plenty to argue about.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Increase in violent storms and flooding along the coasts....at least for the southern half of the country. Yeah, that sounds like a minus, but think of all the bugs that will get blown away, plus the windsurfing will be awesome. Of course you won't be able to get homeowners insurance so that precludes a mortgage. I guess that's a minus.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by glatt

Sure, we don't know the extent of man's responsibility for global warming. We don't know if we can reverse the trend. But I think we can say that global warming (1) exists and (2) is bad. Those are two points that I think can be put into the category of "settled." There's still plenty to argue about.

Glatt, global warming and cooling has been happening since the beginning of the "globe." It is most likely a cyclical situation and we are in the warm side of the cycle. In the 70's it was global cooling we were worried about.
Should we do our part as individuals, communities and nations to reduce our repair whatever damage we are or have done to the environment -absolutely. I don't think any disagrees with that.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Everyone should be aware by now that it's getting warmer, the climate is changing, and people a likely contributing to it.
Like, so it's getting warmer, so what? Is that a bad thing? How warm will it get and what will that mean?

I'm not positive of the exact amount, but even a minute increase in teperature at the polar caps is, not may, is causing a chain of events that will end life on this planet as we know it. Not that I think we can do anything about it or whether we are the cause, but. . .
http:Polar Ice Cap Melting

http:Causes of Global Warming

[Irie]

Not that I think we can do anything about it or whether we are the cause, but. . .
Are you still dancing on the fence? There is more than enough evidence to support people as the cause. Even your own link to the causes of CO2 should be enough. Sure, it doesn't have a blinking sign saying "We did it! We did it!" But you shouldn't have to lay your face on the stove to know it's on. The planet is warming up and we are the cause, time to start trying to clean up our mess!

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by Irie

The planet is warming up and we are the cause, time to start trying to clean up our mess!

I'm not dancing on the fence per say, but we discussed this topic not too long ago in another thread. (damn I can't find it now - lil help please) I don't think there is any reason for us to not try to be more considerate of the planet, but I am not sure whether any of these Bills sent to congress will pass nor if they do whether they will do anything. It reaks of political posturing to me. But I am cynical by nature anyway. I sincerely hope that we, as a race do something to keep this ball spinning, be it our fault or not.

[Irie]

Originally Posted by yesman065

Not that I think we can do anything about it or whether we are the cause, but. . .

http:Causes of Global Warming

Sorry, that was meant to be quoted

[tw]

Originally Posted by yesman065

I'm not positive of the exact amount, but even a minute increase in teperature at the polar caps is, not may, is causing a chain of events that will end life on this planet as we know it. Not that I think we can do anything about it or whether we are the cause, but. . .

To make that statement, then you know what "falling off the mountain" means. After all you made a statement is requires knowledge of that soundbyte. Tell us, Yesman065, what that statement means - because you know such facts before having an opinion.

Tell us what about "falling off the mountain" since the concept is so basic to understanding global warming.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by tw

To make that statement, then you know what "falling off the mountain" means. After all you made a statement is requires knowledge of that soundbyte. Tell us, Yesman065, what that statement means - because you know such facts before having an opinion.

Tell us what about "falling off the mountain" since the concept is so basic to understanding global warming.

Its about you being nuts. Hows that? - I posted links - read 'em and weep since they don't agree with your BS. You still owe me an apology.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Like, so it's getting warmer, so what? Is that a bad thing? How warm will it get and what will that mean?

How much of the world's population and infrastructure is on a coastline?

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

How much of the world's population and infrastructure is on a coastline?

fortunately blue staters tend to hang out by the coast lines. he he he.