$27 million anti-evolution museum to open soon

Damn, I was hot there for a sec.

[elSicomoro]

Capitalism is the Devil, IMO, but there are worse things...better the Devil you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzjjxi7f0Oc

Ow!

[Happy Monkey]

Capitalism is supposed to pit competing evils against each other to promote good. i.e., the consumer picks the lesser of the available evils.

It doesn't always work.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It worked until the self-centered me,myself&I's came along.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It worked until the self-centered me,myself&I's came along.

To whom are you referring? The robber barons?

Self-centeredness and selfishness shouldn't be a problem in a capitalist society (as far as the capitalism goes, other aspects of the society will suffer). What breaks capitalism is the concentration of wealth and power in small groups, eliminating the competition that is supposed to keep them honestish.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

To whom are you referring? The robber barons?

Self-centeredness and selfishness shouldn't be a problem in a capitalist society (as far as the capitalism goes, other aspects of the society will suffer). What breaks capitalism is the concentration of wealth and power in small groups, eliminating the competition that is supposed to keep them honestish.

No, not the Barons, they are doing what they always did, albeit on a much larger scale. Greed without borders, anyone?

I was referring to the consumers, when making their choices of evils consider only themselves in the immediate future, without a thought to the effects on anyone else or even the long range effects to themselves.

[Happy Monkey]

I'm pretty sure that such laws have already been declared unconstitutional, and whatever states still have them do so out of laziness and/or pigheadedness.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I'm pretty sure that such laws have already been declared unconstitutional, and whatever states still have them do so out of laziness and/or pigheadedness.

Worse than that, it's one assholes interpretation of what they mean. Look at PA.

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth."

It specifically says nobody can be denied office for his religious convictions. It absolutely does not say, must hold them to be qualified. that's not misinterpretation, it's an outright lie.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Worse than that, it's one assholes interpretation of what they mean. Look at PA.

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth."

It specifically says nobody can be denied office for his religious convictions. It absolutely does not say, must hold them to be qualified. that's not misinterpretation, it's an outright lie.

Who can't be disqualified on account of religious sentiments? People who acknowledge the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments.

Who can? Everyone else.

It does explicitly leave atheists open to disqualification, though I don't think it actually disqualifies them. I'm not a lawyer, though, so I'm not sure whether the exclusionary style of the sentence has such implications.

And here's a better list than the last one.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No it doesn't, it doesn't even imply that.

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth."
they would have to leave out "on account of his religious sentiments' for that to be true.

These phrases are historical relics, left over from earlier times. The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution supersedes any applicable statutory laws and sections of state constitutions. It thus nullifies the effect of the above clauses. This was confirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court, as described below.

Don't forget the states preceded the "United States" and were formed by religious people who wrote the rules for themselves and their peers. you can't change history.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No it doesn't, it doesn't even imply that.

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth."
they would have to leave out "on account of his religious sentiments' for that to be true.

Don't forget the states preceded the "United States" and were formed by religious people who wrote the rules for themselves and their peers. you can't change history.

Two versions:

"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth."

"No person shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth."

As long as you acknowledge the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments, you can't be disqualified on religious grounds. If you don't, you can.

And yes, I know this is moot, thanks to the Supreme Court, as I said earlier.

[Spexxvet]

Just like there are benevolent dictatorships, there should be benevolent capitalism. Unbridled capitalism gets toxic waste in your water and hot and cold running sewage from your faucet, among other evils. A successful capitalism would increase the middle class and reduce the wealth gap.

MONTANA

We the people of Montana grateful to God for the quiet beauty of our state, the grandeur of our mountains, the vastness of our rolling plains, and desiring to improve the quality of life, equality of opportunity and to secure the blessings of liberty for this and future generations do ordain and establish this constitution.


NEBRASKA

We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, do ordain and establish the following declaration of rights and frame of government, as the Constitution of the State of Nebraska.


NEVADA

We the people of the State of Nevada Grateful to Almighty God for our freedom in order to secure its blessings, insure domestic tranquility, and form a more perfect Government, do establish this Constitution.


NEW HAMPSHIRE

(Article V of their Bill of Rights

Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience, and reason; and no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his pers on, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession, sentiments, or persuasion; provided he doth not disturb the public peace or disturb others in their religious worship.


NEW JERSEY

We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and transmit the same unimpaired to succeeding generations, do ordain and establish this Constitution.


NEW MEXICO

We, the people of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty, in order to secure the advantages of a state government, do ordain and establish this Constitution.


NEW YORK

We The People of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our Freedom, in order to secure its blessings, DO ESTABLISH THIS CONSTITUTION.


NORTH CAROLINA

We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution.


NORTH DAKOTA

We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain and establish this constitution.


OHIO

We, the people of the State of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare, do establish this Constitution.


OKLAHOMA

Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessing of liberty; to secure just and rightful government; to promote our mutual welfare and happiness, we, the people of the State of Oklahoma, do ordain and establish this Constitution.


OREGON

(Article I, Section 2 of their Bill of Rights

All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences.


PENNSYLVANIA

WE,the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty,and humbly invoking His guidance,do ordain and establish this Constitution.


RHODE ISLAND

We, the people of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and to transmit the same, unimpaired, to succeeding generations, do ordain and establish this Constitution of government.


SOUTH CAROLINA

We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the preservation and perpetuation of the same.


SOUTH DAKOTA

We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties, in order to form a more perfect and independent government, establish justice, insure tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and preserve to ourselves and to our posterity the blessings of liberty, do ordain and establish this constitution for the state of South Dakota.


TENNESSEE

(Article I, Section 3

That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience; that no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect, or support any place of worship, or to maintain any minister against his consent; that no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience; and that no preference shall ever be given, by law to any religious establishment or mode of worship.


TEXAS

Humbly invoking the blessings of Almighty God, the people of the State of Texas, do ordain and establish this Constitution.


UTAH

Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we, the people of Utah, in order to secure and perpetuate the principles of free government, do ordain and establish this CONSTITUTION

VERMONT

(Chapter 1, Article 3

That all persons have a natural and unalienable right, to worship Almighty God, according to the dictates of their own consciences and understandings, as in their opinion shall be regulated by the word of God; and that no person ought to, or of right can be compelled to attend any religious worship, or erect or support any place of worship, or maintain any minister, contrary to the dictates of conscience, nor can any person be justly deprived or abridged of any civil right as a citizen, on account of religious sentiments, or peculia[r] mode of religious worship; and that no authority can, or ought to be vested in, or assumed by, any power whatever, that shall in any case interfere with, or in any manner control the rights of conscience, in the free exercise of religious worship. Nevertheless, every sect or denomination of christians ought to observe the sabbath or Lord's day, and keep up some sort of religious worship, which to them shall seem most agreeable to the revealed will of God.


VIRGINIA

We, therefore, the people of Virginia, so assembled in convention through our representatives, with gratitude to God, for His past favors, and invoking His blessings upon the result of our deliberations, do ordain and establish the following revised and amended Constitution for the government of the Commonwealth:


WASHINGTON

We, the people of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this constitution.


WEST VIRGINIA

Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of west Virginia, in and through the provisions of this Constitution, reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God and seek diligently to promote, preserve and perpetuate good government in the State of West Virginia for the common welfare, freedom and security of ourselves and our posterity.


WISCONSIN

We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings, form a more perfect government, insure domestic tranquility and promote the general welfare, do establish this Constitution.


WYOMING

We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political and religious liberties, and desiring to secure them to ourselves and perpetuate them to our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Outlawing Unbelief
by Tom Flynn

The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 20, Number 1.

It's often forgotten, but seven states of the Union still define atheists, secular humanists, and other freethinkers as second-class citizens. The state constitutions of Arkansas, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas retain historic provisions that ban unbelievers-and in some cases, minority religionists as well-from holding public office, bearing witness in court, or both. The Pennsylvania and Texas constitutions go further yet, declaring their debt to "Almighty God" in their preambles.

Typical language includes Article IX, Sec. 2, of the Tennessee constitution (engagingly titled "No Atheist shall hold a civil office"): "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Article XIX, Sec. 1, of the Arkansas constitution is even more exclusionary: "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."

Article 37 of Maryland's constitution provides that "no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God" (emphasis added).

Article I, Sec. 4, of Pennsylvania's constitution is more insidious: "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth." This dual requirement of belief in a deity and in a retributive afterlife could block adherents of numerous lifestances, even some Christians. A liberal Protestant who believes in God but not in a literal afterlife, a Buddhist who believes in karma but not in a deity, or an Orthodox Jew who believes in God and an afterlife but not in reward or punishment after death-all could be barred from public office as readily as any secular humanist if this clause were enforced.

Ten more have language that can be interpreted to exclude unbelievers but are not specific laws. There is not a state that I know of that does not swear in officials without a Bible.