Oil jumps above $100 on refinery outage

[tw]

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

This will be the year of the consumer diesel cars.

Mercedes did substantial research in the 1990s onwards to refine a superior diesel. Other manufacturers were pioneering other technologies. In every case, it was about doing more work with less energy. Adapting better to changing loads. A 1960 technology V-8 so common in low performance American products should have and could have been cremated decades ago. That V-8 gasoline engine is a tribute to bean counters doing cost controls. Why do so many pickups and SUVs have these crappy technologies?

Mid 1970 America V-8 engines did maybe 170 Hp. That is what four cylinder engines and smallest V-6s do today where innovation existed. Why does anyone need 200 or 300 Hp engines? Ego? Confidence? Self-esteem? Who are these people? A problem.

[TheMercenary]

I would love to see gas got to $4 a gallon overnight and my truck gets 16 mpg.

[Undertoad]

[TheMercenary]

That was the first thing I thought of when he wrote that last night.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Teh Internet culture. Let me show you it.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

They did a pretty good job of convincing me that world oil production is very near the peak, which means that production will level off, then begin to drop, even as demand is increasing.

But what's a realistic timeline for that? 3 years? 15 years? More specifically, let's say one is in the market to replace a vehicle in the next few months. Aside from the warm fuzzies one gets from getting a hybrid, right now it is a mathematical fact that hybrid cars do not make up their initial price difference in gas savings unless you drive a lot more than we do. Obviously there will be a tipping point where this will change, but it would be nice to have an idea roughly when that will be. We do tend to drive our cars until every last ounce of usefulness has been gotten out of them (this current replacement is only a necessity because it doesn't have enough seating,) so it's likely we'll still be driving it in ten years.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

But what's a realistic timeline for that? 3 years? 15 years? More specifically, let's say one is in the market to replace a vehicle in the next few months. Aside from the warm fuzzies one gets from getting a hybrid, right now it is a mathematical fact that hybrid cars do not make up their initial price difference in gas savings unless you drive a lot more than we do. Obviously there will be a tipping point where this will change, but it would be nice to have an idea roughly when that will be. We do tend to drive our cars until every last ounce of usefulness has been gotten out of them (this current replacement is only a necessity because it doesn't have enough seating,) so it's likely we'll still be driving it in ten years.

Gas prices might reach as high $4/gallon this year. I wouldn't expect any thinking person to buy a vehicle that gets less than about 27 miles per gallon, without a really good reason.

I've had my Insight for 5 years this month and have driven it about 44,000 miles. Compared to a car getting 30 miles per gallon, I've saved about 800 gallons. Compared to my Ranger, I've saved about 1800 gallons.

That's not a lot, but I don't really care if gas goes to $8 or $10 per gallon. It just doesn't affect me much anymore.

If you're getting a car that you'll drive for the next 10 years, I think a hybrid will make economic sense, with gasoline at $4/gallon.

[HungLikeJesus]

We won't know we've passed the peak until we've been past it for a while (a few years). We may have already passed it, or it could happen between now and 2015. A downturn in world economies will delay it for a time.

Alaska peaked in 1988; it is now producing at half the 1988 levels. North America, Europe and Asia have all peaked. Saudi Arabia is expected to plateau within a few years (Sadad al Husseini).

If you buy an SUV, you can make the peak come sooner.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Alaska peaked in 1988; it is now producing at half the 1988 levels.

Not counting ANWAR, right?

[elSicomoro]

Based on what I've read about ANWR though, it would only put a mild bump in our supply, depending on how the oil was used.

[BrianR]

Diesel in Scranton is already at $4.149/gal. I got 149 gallons and the price tag was over $600!

And I'm going to "waste" 12 gallons of it tonight to stay warm.

This is getting out of hand.

[monster]

Originally Posted by BrianR

And I'm going to "waste" 12 gallons of it tonight to stay warm.

Do you mean keeping your engine running while you sleep?

If so, wouldn't it be cheaper to rent a room? (And probably more environmentally friendly too) Or do you have to keep the engine running anyway to stop the diesel freezing? Or something?

/nosy

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by monster

Do you mean keeping your engine running while you sleep?

If so, wouldn't it be cheaper to rent a room? (And probably more environmentally friendly too) Or do you have to keep the engine running anyway to stop the diesel freezing? Or something?

/nosy

sorry for the delay, I forgot about this thread.

Yes, I run the main engine while I sleep, for the heat/air cond as well as heating the fuel and keeping the oil warm and also keeping the batteries topped off.

I cannot afford to rent a hotel every night. I only make about $1000/wk. And I still have to eat.

Brian

[tw]

Originally Posted by monster

Do you mean keeping your engine running while you sleep?
If so, wouldn't it be cheaper to rent a room?

So many posts want government to fix this problem. Government did which is why things are now solved. This is the solution we wanted.

How many addressed actual reasons for over $100 per barrel? A dollar once bought one Euro. Today it takes over $1.50 to buy the same Euro. That's a 50% increase in oil prices. Where is the post that describes that problem?

Oil prices have returned to 1970s prices. Is oil expensive? Or is everyone so weak and pathetic as to 'hurt' when fair market prices return? Get over it. The cheap and easy 'sweet' oil is gone. We burned it in 8 and 14 MPG (3 and 5 km/liter) Pontiacs. Party is over.

What was posted. The heater (a diesel motor) is running constantly to heat air outside the cab. Little energy actually heats the cab. No problem. Energy is too cheap. We do same in many if not most commercial buildings: only enough insulation to say it is insulated when the building has near zero insulation. Energy is rediculously cheap.

Stupidity does not stop there. Put 10 liters of gasoline in the tank. How many liters actually do any productive work? Most people say 5 or 8. Well government fixed the problem; maintained ignorance. You don't know this answer? Then you are the problem. Reality: because gasoline is so cheap, something between 1 to 2 liters out of ten does any productive work. I have found that most people need that sentence stated again due to ignorance or denial. Only 1 to 2 liters in ten do productive work. Vehicles are that grossly inefficient - as we want them to be.

Where is a post that actually blames the problem? Who is so foolish as to look for solutions in government? Government already solved this problem. Government even mandated ethanol that increases gasoline prices - that can only be shipped from the Mid-west in energy consuming trucks or trains - not in pipelines.

How many are so much part of the problem to have a passenger vehicle with 8 cylinders? If gasoline is so high, then why have largest SUV sales continuously increased these past two years? How many waste even more money buying gas at the discount stations - Hess, Wawa, Sheets, 7-11? All examples of what happens when gasoline prices are still too low.

Learned from history. Gasoline prices only get high enough in America at $5 per gallon or $1.30 per liter. Current gasoline prices here are about $0.85 per liter. Amazing. With gas prices that low, anyone would complain? Well how many stood up when the problem was being created by George Jr - repeatedly. How many so hated America as to ignore the numbers - even believed Saddam had WMDs.

Others here so hated humanity as to buy GM products. Congratulations. Just another example of why gas prices must increase. Chevy owners wanted the "heart attack of America"; said, "Stifle innovation". How many who wanted stifled innovation will then complain about prices?

Let's see. BrainR probably hauls 60,000 pounds with a 350 or 500 Hp engine. How many who complained first looked at their own numbers? 180 or 250 horses to haul a 3,000 pound car. Again, gasoline prices are too low. Brian hauls ten times more weight from the same horse. Or do your eyes glaze over when numbers appear? Very few here have any right to complain about gasoline prices.

Why does the dollar only buy 0.67 Euros? How many so hated America as to also believe Saddam had WMDs. Welcome to the many reasons for higher gasoline prices. Remember, 12 years ago "Project for a New American Century" said that we must secure "OUR" oil. Their solutions to global warming and energy shortages was to lie, invent wars, destroy American relations with the entire world, and then advocate more energy consumption. Now that the world is less stable, all commodities (including oil) must cost more. Gold is now $1000 per oz.

Our government gave us what we wanted. Burn copious quantities of energy to heat open air around a truck cab. We do this because energy is expensive? No problem. The Chinese will finance the debt. "Regean proved that deficits don't matter". Welcome to what happened in the 1960s to create quadrupled gas prices ten years later. Well, it has been 35 years. Those who do not learn from history (or who read UG's books) are doomed to relive history.

That crying is embarrassing. Did you see George Jr lying in 2002 - and not complain then? Do you drive anything with more than 4 cylinders? Did you bitch when our wacko politicians kept gasoline mileage standards excessively low and then gave exemptions to SUVs; also called corporate welfare? What has always been a major solution to Global Warming? Do more work from less energy. Instead, how many choose to deny global warming - advocate less productive work from greater consumption?

Ten liters when only 1 to 2 actually do any productive work. Most energy gets wasted as heat and noise. If you did not know that, then slap yourself for being part of the problem. This complaining has become tiresome.

"When the collapse comes ..."? What collapse. Economics takes revenge. There is no collapse. You simple work more jobs and actually worry every week about the price of milk and meat. Some of the best jobs were moving construction equipment to the docks - to other countries what produced same things using less than have the energy. Deja vue.

[Shawnee123]

I read that they project people are going to finally start saying "that's enough" and drive a whole lot less. I'll believe it when I see it. That's what we can hope for. That is what I think those who say "in my country it's 5000 qwerty a ha' litre or whatever measurements they use, so you should be happy" don't understand. This IS America and we do expect that our government listen to the people who are saying "this is enough when I must choose between feeding my family and gasoline" by boycotting, cutting down, and aggressive feedback.

I don't believe gas prices are on an unavoidable upswing. I do believe that if we get a president (et al) who is (are) not in the pockets of the oil companies we could effect some changes.