I found out today - Page 2

xoxoxoBruce · 02-21-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

American agriculture needs 1.8 million immigrants.

So send the other 16 million home.

tw · 02-21-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So send the other 16 million home.

Other American industries need the rest.

TheMercenary · 02-21-2008, 11:24 PM

DanaC · 02-22-2008, 06:11 AM

I've always hated that term: illegal alien. It sounds dehumanising. More accurate would be 'illegal immigrant', regardless of what the legalise term might be. Their illegality does not rest in the fact that they are 'aliens', their illegality rests in the fact they have migrated without following the proper channels.

Illegal alien reduces them to their very alienness, the fact that they are foreign.

TheMercenary · 02-22-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

I've always hated that term: illegal alien. It sounds dehumanising. More accurate would be 'illegal immigrant', regardless of what the legalise term might be. Their illegality does not rest in the fact that they are 'aliens', their illegality rests in the fact they have migrated without following the proper channels.

Illegal alien reduces them to their very alienness, the fact that they are foreign.

Semantics IMHO. It doesn't change the fact they are here illegally, you know, broken our laws.

DanaC · 02-22-2008, 08:38 AM

Semantics are not unimportant. Words have power. The point is that 'illegal alien' reinforces their otherness rather than their illegality. It reduces them as people to 'aliens'. 'Illegal immigrant' emphasises the illegal act rather than their otherness, it focuses on what they've done rather than what they are.

TheMercenary · 02-22-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Semantics are not unimportant. Words have power. The point is that 'illegal alien' reinforces their otherness rather than their illegality. It reduces them as people to 'aliens'. 'Illegal immigrant' emphasises the illegal act rather than their otherness, it focuses on what they've done rather than what they are.

It does not reduce them as people to me and I don't see them as less than human. The focus is on what they have done. Because they are people changes none of that.

DanaC · 02-22-2008, 08:46 AM

Maybe it's a cultural thing. We don't use the word 'alien' here to refer to incoming foreigners.

elSicomoro · 02-22-2008, 09:55 AM

Actually, I don't hear "illegal alien" very often...some may use it to make a point. In general, the term here seems to be "illegal immigrant."

Some guy on PhillyBlog accused people that used "illegal alien" of being racist; he's a bit of a nutter. I understand Dana's POV on it, but it's totally different than using a word like "spic."

DanaC · 02-22-2008, 10:27 AM

I didn't say the word was racist. I said I never liked that term, because to me it seems dehumanising.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-22-2008, 10:33 AM

They are aliens because they don't belong here. They have no intention of becoming citizens, just grab what they can, milk the system, and go home.

elSicomoro · 02-22-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

I didn't say the word was racist.

I know you didn't...I was just telling a short story about a person with similar feelings about the word (though from a different perspective).

Undertoad · 02-22-2008, 10:46 AM

Immigrants is a little wrong because it suggests their intent is to immigrate. We can't assume their intention, unless we ask.

binky · 02-22-2008, 07:03 PM

c'mon syc, here in California the proper term is "undocumented immigrant" like they somehow just misplaced their papers

02-21-2008, 11:24 PM	#3
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	__________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

02-22-2008, 10:33 AM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	They are aliens because they don't belong here. They have no intention of becoming citizens, just grab what they can, milk the system, and go home. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-22-2008, 07:03 PM	#14
binky all hollowed out Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Posts: 982	c'mon syc, here in California the proper term is "undocumented immigrant" like they somehow just misplaced their papers __________________ The meanest Mom EVER!!!!

02-22-2008, 06:11 AM	#4
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I've always hated that term: illegal alien. It sounds dehumanising. More accurate would be 'illegal immigrant', regardless of what the legalise term might be. Their illegality does not rest in the fact that they are 'aliens', their illegality rests in the fact they have migrated without following the proper channels. Illegal alien reduces them to their very alienness, the fact that they are foreign.

02-22-2008, 08:38 AM	#6
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Semantics are not unimportant. Words have power. The point is that 'illegal alien' reinforces their otherness rather than their illegality. It reduces them as people to 'aliens'. 'Illegal immigrant' emphasises the illegal act rather than their otherness, it focuses on what they've done rather than what they are.

02-22-2008, 08:46 AM	#8
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Maybe it's a cultural thing. We don't use the word 'alien' here to refer to incoming foreigners.

02-22-2008, 09:55 AM	#9
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Actually, I don't hear "illegal alien" very often...some may use it to make a point. In general, the term here seems to be "illegal immigrant." Some guy on PhillyBlog accused people that used "illegal alien" of being racist; he's a bit of a nutter. I understand Dana's POV on it, but it's totally different than using a word like "spic."

02-22-2008, 10:27 AM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I didn't say the word was racist. I said I never liked that term, because to me it seems dehumanising.

02-22-2008, 10:46 AM	#13
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Immigrants is a little wrong because it suggests their intent is to immigrate. We can't assume their intention, unless we ask.

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